GoWings1905

I mean you hit on the areas Glendening is superior to Andersson, but neglected the other side. Andersson has more offensive ability (not saying much compared to Glendening), is better at faceoffs and penalty killing, while being very comparable defensively to Glendening. So far, Andersson's best showing of hockey (playoffs 2013) is more impressive than anything Glendening has displayed. Again, I don't really care if either is on the team, but I think Glendening is severely overhyped because of the agitating angle. I guess we will just agree to disagree on Jurco. I don't really care about losing players for nothing if they are expendable for starters. If Callahan is worthy of a roster spot, that's what the pre-season is for him to go out and earn it. The Red Wings can't afford a ten game tryout for the regular season since they are more than likely going to be fighting for their playoff lives again.

I love Darren Helm, but he has shown nothing to indicate being a 30 goal scorer. I think 20 goals even with the Euro Twins would be a little high. Helm just doesn't have the hands or finishing touch to capitalize consistently on all of the scoring chances his speed creates. I think it's a toss up as to who is more inept offensively between Abby or Helm. Babs is somewhat handcuffed by the personnel Holland has given him, but he keeps trying to force square pegs into round holes with certain players. Helm and Abby should have similar roles on the 3rd/4th line. It isn't fair to them or the team to ask something out of them that they just aren't cut out for as players.

No kidding. You knew Babs would somehow find a way to keep his boy Glendening at center on the 4th line. Bergeron and Krejci are scared s***less having to face his "grit" and defensive prowess.

I prefer Andersson out of the two, but both are expendable in reality. The Wings are already set up the middle with Weiss back, so I don't really see where Andersson or Glendening fit into the picture without injuries. Jurco was a fringe NHL player because he wasn't even 21 years old and then he proved during his time that he was good enough to stay. Glendening, Andersson and Callahan are fringe NHL players because none of them possess a skill set that is anything special to warrant an every day roster spot. Skill isn't the question with Jurco -- he held his own in a third line role and has immense talent to continue developing against quality competition. My argument has nothing to do with whether Jurco will make the team. That status was pretty much cemented by Cleary, maybe Alfie and the previously mentioned guys. My stance is that Jurco should be playing for the Red Wings regardless of his Grand Rapids option, the "logjam" at forward or whatever other reason people use for sending him down. Some agree more with Holland's overripe strategy and that's fine. I do think it has its merits at times and has worked before. However, I do believe it should be on a case-by-case basis instead of this overriding philosophical organizational belief that we cling to no matter what. Sending Jurco down "just because you can" is silly and a cop out to keep lesser players around that don't help the team win now or in the future. It's not like the Red Wings are this juggernaut championship contender anymore where they can afford to stash young talent in the minors.

There are hundreds of Luke Glendening's floating around the league. Hell, Joakim Andersson probably brings more to the table. You don't keep Jurco down for Glendening or Callahan. Those are fringe NHL players.

Is losing Callahan, Ferraro or even Glendening for nothing that big of a deal? I personally wouldn't care if none of the three played for the Wings. I want to win games; not uphold a philosophy of forcing prospects to be overripe, which hasn't gotten the team anywhere in five years. Jurco deserves to be in the NHL, regardless of the circumstances or taking the easy way out.

That is all well and good if Cleary somehow has knees again. I'm not rooting for him to fail, but Tomas Jurco can do better than 20 points on the third line, along with everything else he provides that is superior to Cleary. Even if Cleary is healthy, he's pushing better players off the roster. That has always been my continuous problem with the deal.

I don't know that still existing is the only barometer of success. All have serious attendance issues. Phoenix was getting run by the league for a stretch. Most of these previous expansion markets are far from thriving and the league wants to continue pushing the idea. I hope there is a way to resolve the unbalanced conferences, but I don't want it come through adding four additional teams. I'm not really even a fan of two more unless it involves relocation.

Just stop adding teams already. How much more watered down and parity filled do we need the league to become? Florida, Phoenix, Nashville and Atlanta all failed, but hey let's keep forcing the expansion issue some more. At least relocate if they are going to pursue this dumb idea at all.

Jurco has already outplayed Cleary -- that's the part of the argument I don't understand. All of last season Jurco was a far superior player to Cleary. He shouldn't have to do anything special in training camp because he already did it at the NHL level. When the Wings reluctantly gave the young players an opportunity (mostly due to injuries), all of them met or exceeded expectations. Yet they face the prospect of going back to Grand Rapids just because the option is available. I get having to earn your spot and more often than not the Wings are overly resistant in allowing young guys to stick on the team. Did anyone believe Sheahan was going to perform like he did? Perfect example of sometimes you just have to give guys a chance instead of absolutely demanding they become overripe first.

I don't think so. As much of a misfit as Abby is on the first line, he's still superior to Cleary in every facet of the game at this juncture. I'm usually pretty critical of Babs decisions with the lines, but if Cleary makes the team at all, I fully expect it to be in a very minor role. Unless Cleary somehow magically got new knees and can skate again, there's no justification for him to get slotted above other more deserving forwards on the roster. Babs is trying to win and despite his stubborn nature, he isn't going to jeopardize that by overusing a washed up veteran.

Nyquist with the Euro Twins pretty much goes against Babs typical thinking when constructing a line. I'm not entirely opposed to Nyquist playing there (my first choice is Jurco), but if history is any indication, that spot is going to Abby. I don't really like Tatar away from Sheahan and/or Helm either. I think Tatar largely thrived offensively last season because he wasn't typically drawing opponents top forwards and d-men. Sheltering Tatar on the third line worked because most other teams couldn't match up with what the Wings could throw out in Tatar, Sheahan and Jurco together.

Alfie will mostly count against the cap next season. I don't think the Wings really need depth either. They need impact players, particularly on defense. Holland whiffed there, but we don't need more Brian Lashoff's on defense. Forward actually looks decent if (and it's a huge if) they can stay healthy.

My preference: Z - Pav - Jurco Franzen - Weiss - Nyquist Tatar - Sheahan - Alfie/Mantha Miller - Helm - Abby Kronwall - Smith DeKeyser - E KFQ - Marchenko/Ouellet

It's not so much that the Wings don't win the Cup every year that gets people upset. It's the fact Holland has this team going in the wrong or same direction for the past five years now. Holland really needs to work on changing some organizational philosophies within the next four years if the Wings want to get back in serious contention for championships. If we get four more years like the past five, then Holland has failed miserably.

This is my preference as well. Abby in a role much more suited for his style of play and Jurco up with the Euro Twins. Unfortunately, we all know Abby will be pulling the piano and Glendening will get 18 minutes somewhere in the lineup for being feisty.

I disagree with that statement. Just getting in the playoffs because the Kings have won it twice as lower seeds doesn't mean that's all it takes. The Red Wings, even completely healthy, don't have anywhere near the talent level right now to compete with the elite teams in the league. Some puck luck and health doesn't get them past Boston in the first round. I'm not that upset Holland is back (besides the term), but just making the playoffs is one of the problems with Holland at the moment. I don't believe that's something to celebrate when efforts aren't being made to get the team out of that middling position.

Seems a little lengthy given the recent direction of the team under Holland, but I never really anticipated the Red Wings not keeping Holland around. I guess if the kids pan out within that time frame it might turn out pretty well because the Wings are essentially banking on that now with Holland's poor track record lately signing free agents and making trades. I still don't believe Babs is coming back, though.

Exactly. People remember the two mistakes Stuart made in Game 7, but not how many shots he blocked that playoff run or 2008 on the PK, let alone all of his years in Detroit. Or how not a single Wings d-man besides maybe E has come close to matching Stuart's PK ability since then. Physical, sound defensively and the ideal partner to complement Kronwall. Kronner really was able to contribute at a higher level offensively and play more aggressively with Stuart there to cover for him. It was the perfect deadline acquisition to put the 2008 team over the top. I know there isn't much positive history for comparison, but for me that is easily Holland's best trade since the lockout.

The contract is going to carry over into next season too for Alfie. Same with Cleary once he plays his lousy ten games. So the Wings are paying for two players that either don't drastically or at all improve their chances of winning this year or beyond. Sure, there will be injuries but why does that matter? The 12 best forwards should start on the team and Tomas Jurco is one of them. It took until mid-November to get Gustav Nyquist up last season. I'm not saying Jurco will have that same impact, but I would rather watch him progress against NHL competition and building for the future than veterans that don't change the immediate outlook for the Red Wings. Alfie was solid until February and then disappeared. Whether it be fatigue or injury, both of those are probable to occur again when dealing with an athlete over 40. It goes back to the direction of the organization. Does a fringe playoff team really benefit from using veterans at the expense of youth? If I thought the Wings could win a Cup, then I'm all for keeping Alfie. Otherwise, I'm not sure there's a real purpose.

It's not that hard of a philosophy to argue against. See Gustav Nyquist and Tomas Tatar last season. Jurco doesn't need more time in Grand Rapids just because he can get sent down -- he has already proven to be an effective NHL player. Play your best forwards, especially when the team is in transition and can accelerate the process of developing its youth. Why have a 42-year-old Alfie take a roster spot when you can have Jurco instead? Again, if the Wings are true contenders, then I get the Alfie angle.

It won't happen, but I think the Wings should walk away from Alfie. This team is not a championship contender with Alfie back and you are committing money for not only this season, but likely the next one too. All of this for a 42-year-old coming off back issues that isn't likely to play anywhere near most of the games anyways. I like Alfie and thought he was good (before the Olympics) last year. I don't like him for another season given the makeup of this roster. It just isn't a necessary move. Then again, neither was bringing back Cleary, Quincey or Monster, so of course Holland will pull the trigger. Basically I'm absolutely opposed to anything that is going to keep Tomas Jurco in Grand Rapids and Alfie returning is another forward in the numbers game. Play the kids and speed up the transition to becoming relevant again. Signing Alfie for a veteran presence is fine if you are contending. Doesn't make any sense for the Wings now.

Low risk move for only a year. I didn't necessarily want Del Zotto, but I would take a flyer on him rather than two years of Quincey at over four million per season. If he's hurt or bad, then the kids just play, which is my preferred solution anyways.

Philadelphia does I believe, but that's the only one I can think of off the top of my head.

I'm fine with that also, but I would have rather just not signed Quincey at all. Not sure how much of a market there is for Kindl and judging by recent comments, the Wings don't intend to play any of the kids on defense, so Kindl hypothetically still has a spot.