lets go pavel

i think it's true that the wings do have a habit of bringing back former players who were solid contributors once and who they feel can be solid contributors again ... take a known quantity over the unknown ... that said, they also seem to do a pretty good job making sure these players fit the team's needs, fit the team's budget, and are still capable of making the same meaningful contributions that are desired ... ... so where does it leave Mac? i don't think anyone knows ... if he is capable of returning to the ice and showing some semblance of his old playing self, if management and coaching staff feel he will fit in with the current team and has something to offer, and if (and chances are good here) he is affordable, why wouldn't we see him back in the winged wheel? but these are 2 big ifs and one little one, and a lot depends on what Mac can do ... if they all turn out to be yes i don't think any of us would be disappointed to see him back on the team, but if they don't all work out it ain't gonna happen ... he's going to have to earn a spot on this team ...

but isn't that what we got downey for?? seriously, these guys are playing at such a high level almost every night, and with such great chemistry no matter what the line combinations lately, i can't wait for the playoffs ...

i think i would add calgary to the contender list in the west, i know thay got off to a slow start but they're picking it up lately, and i think they've got a team that's made for the playoffs ... we beat them last year, but i'd still rather not face them in the first round again ... hopefully they don't end up as the 8 seed ...

actually, as ridiculous as that idea seems, it is far superior to the other plan that was discussed: now if we can just replace the ice with a nice flannel ...

no kidding ... i mean, what's to stop Chris Chelios from eating tons of Cheli's Chili every day until he completely blocks the net all by himself?

hey, what part of VA are you from? we're in fredericksburg ... just got up to detroit to catch a game for the first time in october, so i can't offer much in the way of suggestions, but i will say the peoplemover is real quick and easy if you stay somewhere near it ... it sounds like you're driving up though, so maybe it won't matter ... anyway, enjoy the game!

wow ... now we should really have some goalie controversy ... i wonder when his first one was ...

whoa there, let's not let him off the hook for global warming just yet ... if things warm up sufficiently to eliminate all the outdoor rinks and such for our neighbors to the north then hockey's popularity and place in society could dimish to a level similar to what it is in ... oh ... maybe ... nashville? if he can eliminate all the good hockey markets, then every market becomes a good hockey market ... can you say parity!

exactly ... what we need is a mix of skill, speed, smarts, grit, hustle, goaltending, and a little luck ... if you look at the teams whose names are engraved in the cup, these are the things that they all had in common ... it doesn't matter a bit what country all of these things come from ...

actually there is ... i seem to remember winning a cup or two with 4 or 5 Russians on the team in the not-so-distant past, and i don't think any of them took those sprng months off ... but i guess they must have been the exception to your indisputable generalization ... and i'm not sure it has been well-established that it is "the Eurocentric make-up of the current incarnation of the Red Wings" that is hurting attendance and popularity ... i believe people have identified a number of reasons for the drop-off in attendance, including the poor economy and the resurgence of the other sports team in Detroit ... moreover, the only North American Wings that I can think of that cultivated any irreplacable devotion in fans were Stevie and Shanny, and I don't think the reason they were more popular than Hank and Pavel are now was because they were North American ... they were here longer ... give Hank and pavel a few more years and I think they will be just as popular (well, maybe not as popular as Stevie, but who is?) ... as for this team being the softest in the league, we all know our style of play is puck possession and not hitting, but we held our own against Calgary and SJ last year, 2 teams that most people consider to be pretty physical ... just because we don't play that way of our own choosing doesn't mean we can't play that way ... and as for your assumption that all Russians are soft, need I mention a certain #16 on defense?

... though i do remember one goal that got through ... i believe it went in off his own d-man, Judas ...

i think another thing that is often overlooked when talking about "greedy" Russian players going back overseas to play is that the situtation with Russia is different from most if not all other countries ... historically Russia/Soviet Union has obviously had a big rivalry with the U.S. and that manifests itself in sports ... the Russian teams are willing to pay it's players more than perhaps they are worth to keep them there so that their league can try to rival the NHL ... I don't think this is the case with any other countries, certainly not to the extent that it is with Russia ... hand-in-hand with this is that most of the NHL is American or Canadian -- they may be just as "greedy", but there isn't another league back home bidding for their services ... while an American or Canadian may occasionally get an offer from overseas it usually doesn't match what they could get in the NHL ... so in a sense there is less competition for their services and hence less opportunity for them to appear greedy ... i'm sure if Canada started its own hockey league on par with the NHL we would see plenty of "greedy" Canadians leaving the NHL for better money back home ...

actually if you want to get technical about it you are both right ... a decade is by definition a group of ten sequential years, it doesn't matter when they start or stop ... so 1980-89 is a decade, 1981-90 is a decade, and 1985-94 is a decade ... however the most popular, logical, and easily namable way to assign decades is as joshy207 stated - the eighties, the nineties, etc ... this is only mathematically incorrect if you bring in the word "first" or assign some point in time as a starting point - for example the birth of Jesus ... then as eva says you have to start from that reference point in time and count forward in groups of ten ... in this case, 2001-2010 is the 201st decade AD ... however, the NHL probably doesn't have much reason to reference the birth of Jesus when assigning decades (though i hear Moses had a wicked slapshot and loved to throw his body around)

no, he's not ... last year after 16 games he had 3 goals and 9 assists ... this year he has 2 and 14 ... while his goals are off by 1, his overall production is up this year over last ... if you project last year after 16 games he would have ended up with about 15 goals and 45 assists, a 60 point season ... he ended up with 27 goals and 60 assists for 87 points, exceeding the projection by 12 goals and 27 points ... there's no reason to think he won't do the same this year ... i don't see cause for concern in his point totals ... his faceoffs probably are impacted by playing wing, which isn't surprising ... if you don't take as many you don't get in a rhythm ... but again, if he hasn't taken many then a few percentage points only translates to an extra couple facceoffs lost, hardly a huge deal ... the fact that his faceoff % is down because he isn't taking as many should only be cause for concern if whoever is taking them is doing worse ... none of this is to say i disagree with you that Pavel is probably more comfortable at center, but i don't think he's off to a bad start, and i don't think you'd see a significant difference in his or Hank's performance were they to switch ...

i don't think you can compare their individual stats at center unless they were playing with the same wingers ... much of Z's stats at center come with Pavel on wing ... Pavel doesn't have Pavel on wing ... and vice versa ... i think the only real way to compare their play at center statistically would be to look at the DZH line with Pavel at center vs. the DZH line with Hank at center and see which is more productive ...not sure if that's possible, but it seems to be the real question anyway ...

last year after 16 games Pavel had 3 goals and 9 assists ... this year he has 2 goals and 14 assists ... i think he'll be fine

Maybe I'm wrong, but I recall broadcasters on more than one occasion saying that Babs doesn't care which of them plays center and which plays wing, and doesn't care who takes face offs ... he lets them decide. Now I don't know how true that is, but I have a hard time believing that either is unhappy or out-of-sorts playing with the other, regardless of where they are playing. The goals will come ...

update: nhl network just said they'd bring us the live feed as soon as they work out some technical difficulties ... we'll see ...

seriously, they've only been advertising this game at the bottom of their screen for a goddamn week ... WTF?

this is some s*** ... i'm in VA, i have nhl network, and it says they're showing the wings, but they're not ... they're just doing nhl on the fly ... arrrrgh

we can argue until we're blue in the face about who is better, z or vinny, pavel or vinny, etc, etc ... they all bring different things to the table so it's never going to be settled anyway ... but here's why keeping hank and pavel is better than trading either for vinny - they're already here ... we need to add to what we already have, not start swapping stars - hank and pavel are the offensive centerpieces of our team, they are who we are building around, they are who the team already has chemistry with ... swapping one of them for vinny doesn't give us more depth - in fact, depending on who else we would have to give up it probably weakens our other lines ... you don't win championships by constantly swapping your key players for supposed upgrades - it's what the redskins do every year and it gets them nowhere (sorry, i'm from va) ... the team we have can win the cup ... could we use a little more scoring depth? sure ... but at this point what team couldn't? i would argue we look as good top to bottom as any other team in the league right now ...

dennis hopper ... is that you man?

i've got Cox in VA and it is up and running ... not that that helps many of you, but it is pretty sweet ... now there's always something watchable on

i think the key here is "so far" ... we have a lot of young guys with question marks on our other lines, and while some of them have started slow they are beginning to show signs of life ... Flip has been warming up, Huddles is getting some chances, Ellis is making the most of his icetime ... by the time the playoffs roll around these guys may be solid contributors, and we may have the depth we need ... then again there's always the chance they won't, but the point is it's too early to tell ... don't get me wrong, i'm still all for picking up a top-6 forward, but i think i'd rather look for someone to complement the other forwards on the roster and keep Hank and Pavel together ...

a little off topic, but from that same article: "Bettman said although ESPN will no longer be airing NHL games, he has been assured by Bodenheimer and ESPN senior vp of programming Mark Shapiro, that the network "will continue to cover [the NHL] in a meaningful andsignificant way," as part of its nightly Sports Center coverage." i guess "meaningful and significant" means the nhl still has a spot on the ticker? anyway, can't wait until the nhl network starts up on cox, i think just a few more days ...