lets go pavel

Ahhh ... I couldn't tell what they were saying. I picked up on the "You suck", but the rest was just noise to me ... a little off topic, but wasn't it the second goal there at 1:04 where Arnott got concussed by his own teammate? Karmic retribution, I guess ...

Am I missing something? It sounds like fans at a hockey game ...

To me, he's not really showing off, he's just the class clown of the NHL. I think he does it primarily for the fans. At the home games the fans go apes*** when he scores and celebrates. It pumps up the whole place, and that's exactly what the NHL needs. So what if it pisses off the other team? Go hit him ... that makes the game better too. I haven't paid enough attention, are his celebrations as flamboyant on the road as they are at home?

No, dude, he isn't. The writer is well aware that none of these guys' firings had anything to do with playing overseas, he's just having some fun. You're taking this WAAAAAAAY too seriously.

It can be such a terrible burden! And I agree, I don't see him catching Malkin, but I'd like to see him #2 or 3. If he gets on one more good streak I could see him passing Crosby and maybe Ovie ...

Huh? Should we send him to his room without supper, too? Last I checked Ozzie isn't a 6-year-old who's been misbehaving. It's not like he's intentionally gone out and had a s***ty year, so what do you want him to think about? If anything, thinking about it too much IS the problem, which is probably why they're giving him the time away to begin with.

Hell yeah! He's the first person I think of when we're talking about REAL goalies ...

He's a bottom-pairing/#7 defenseman and occasionally a spare forward. His upside is probably not much more than that. I think he fills the role just fine.

Newsflash, Boomer! The team I described IS the team we have. It's the team we won a Cup with last year. And no, with my logic we don't end up with a team stacked with over-the-hill 30-somethings, we end up with a team that has a solid veteran core, experiance to handle every situtation, and also a good influx of youth and skill. You keep responding as if I am saying we can't ever trade anyone ... I didn't say this. Loyalty and trading are not mutually exclusive concepts. No team can be loyal to everyone, obviously. Loyalty isn't the sole reason for not trading somebody, either. We are loyal to our players, but this doesn't mean we're ONLY keeping them out of loyalty. A player like Maltby or Draper has more value to us than they ever would to another team - we won't get anything in return. As for Holmstrom, loyalty isn't the reason we aren't going to trade him, it's because he plays on our top line and our top PP unit, he's our main net presence. I'm sure every team in the league would be glad to take him. Can we win without him? Sure, but the same could be said of everyone. That's not a reason to trade people. The Wings are a loyal organization. They are also a smart organization. They make moves when they need to make them for the good of the team, but they also try to take care of their own. You may not like this philosophy, but you cannot deny that history shows this IS what the Wings do, and it works out pretty well for them.

What the hell are you talking about? Loyalty doesn't meaning never bringing in outside people, and it doesn't mean never trading anyone. It means taking care of players who have been the heart and soul of the organization for years and years ... Lidstrom, Draper, Maltby, Holmstrom, etc. You may not like it, but the fact of the matter is it exists. Sometimes the team has to make the tough decision and let someone go, that's true, but for the most part they take care of their own. And prospects are a different matter entirely ... This doesn't vindicate you unless it works. If it does, and Ozzie comes back strong, I'll be happy to pat you on the back, but until then let's hold off on the horn-tooting ...

I think trying to pinpoint one thing that the defense or goalie is doing to cause the "problem" is pointless. Everything that has been mentioned here has happened at some point. The defense has made Osgood look worse by giving up too many quality scoring chances (caused by many of the things listed in previous posts), and Ozzie has made the defense look worse by allowing most of the scoring chances to get by him. I think the bottom line is that they have their own problems that have nothing to do with each other, and they need to get them fixed. The defense seems to be improving, hopefully Ozzie will do the same.

The Red Wings have demonstrated their loyalty to their players for many years now, and players have returned the favor. We're not trading Ozzie. Or Maltby. Or Homer.

I too thought it would be better to let Ozzie keep playing, and I also feel that the defense has not been as consistently strong this year as last year. I, along with most people who have posted similarly, have also been pretty plain in saying that none of this excuses Ozzie's play, that he is playing poorly. You act like this decision vindicates you, but you should probably wait until it actually works before you start celebrating. If Ozzie comes back strong, then I will gladly agree, we should have done it in December ... if he doesn't, I hope you'll acknowledge that your plan didn't work.

He'll likely only miss 5 games or so. That's still 20 games left ...

As for Ozzie, hopefully this helps. I have been an Ozzie supporter from the get-go. I haven't excused his poor play, but I have and continue to maintain that he is an important part of our ability to win another cup, and we need him playing well. I have stated many times that I thought the best way to do this was to play him ... obviously this hasn't yielded any results yet, so management is trying something different. I'll say it again ... hopefully this helps.

Are you seriously suggesting we trade Holmstrom now? Come on, you don't trade important parts of your team just because they're getting older and their value is soon to be dropping. Who's next, Lidstrom?

It's not about hurting their confidence, it's about team chemistry and unity, something I would imagine it's hard to foster if everyone calls each other out in the media all the time. That's not to say players have to be boring, but realistically, most people aren't funny or they'd all be comedians. If a boring reporter asks a boring question to a boring person, they're almost certain to get a boring answer. There are a few who have the sense of humor and/or charisma to take a boring question and give an interesting answer ... Datsyuk and Ovechkin come to mind, Roenick, Avery (to his own detriment), Hull ...

I would still maintain that while the quantity of shots we're allowing is good, the quality of some of the opposition's chances has been worse this year compared to previous ones. However, this is not an excuse for Ozzie, he has played terribly. I agree with your comparison of Ozzie and Dom, but if this is in fact a decline due to aging ... damn ... that was fast. Can you really go from Conn Smythe considerations to worst starter in the league in 3 months? This just seems like such a mental problem to me ... I don't know. I will say, I would hate to see him go out this way, so I'm really hoping he pulls through ...

Is this really the best analogy you can come up with? Jesus ...

I'm not bashing our defense ... hence "to a lesser extent". They have played better of late, but I do think they have made more mental errors, bad turnovers, etc. this year than what we're used to. That doesn't excuse the play of Ozzie at all ... my point was that the issue is with how WE play, regardless of who you want to include in the "we", not how the other teams play us ...

It worked pretty well last year ...

When, exactly, was the opposing teams' strategy to not shoot the puck as much as possible? The problem with our goaltending has very little to do with opposing teams' strategy or how much we pay our goalies, and everything to do with how our goalies and, to a lesser extent, our defense has played this year.

I don't think it has anything to do with Hudler's performance suffering if given more ice time, and I also don't think it's a conspiracy to lower his value. I think it is partly because he's had to overcome the perception that he's too small, I think it is partly because of some question about his defensive abilities (which are much improved in my opinion), and partly because he plays for a team that is loaded with talented forwards.

Agreed. We may be able to afford Nolan this year, and I wouldn't complain about having him for the postseason, but we sure as hell don't need to be spending 2.75 on him next year when we're already in a pinch to sign Franzen, Hossa, Huddles, Sammy, etc. Part of the rationale to unloading Flip is that we can replace him with one of our own guys that we wouldn't have enough money to sign otherwise -- this can't happen if we're stuck with Nolan.

We should trade Ozzie and Flip for Crosby and alternate him between goal and defense ... then we'd only need 1 thread in the forums!