lets go pavel

Here I disagree completely. The change in the rule that allowed crosby to go changed the "sit 1 game" deal from a simple "injury verification" to a punishment for skipping the ASG. Had there been a consistent rule I don't think we wouldhave any of this. It also would have helped had the rule been publicized ahead of time.

Guys, we have hashed, rehashed, overhashed, underhashed, and then hashed this out some more. There is a ton of ambiguity surrounding all of this, and that's part of the problem, both for the players involved and for us arguing about it. The rule doesn't seem to exist in writing, and the specifics seem to change depending on the source, so it's pretty difficult to ascertain who knew what, said what, and when. When the whole deal first came to light last Friday it certainly sounded like the rule was amended during a phone call between Bettman and Crosby - hence the claims of favoritism. Now it does sound like Holland knew about the changes prior to that. Ultimately, and what I think most all of us agree on, the problem here was with the league/Bettman. The rule was not clear, and it was not made public. Two players were used as public examples for violating a rule that, from all accounts, they were not fully informed about. The rule was supposedly created to substantiate injury claims, not as a punishment, but the way that the league and subsequently many in the the media painted it was that the 2 players were being punished for skipping the ASG. On the bright side, there were quite a few who stuck up for our guys too. Regardless, it could have been handled better. In any case, the damage is done. I don't believe either player's reputation will suffer in any lasting way from this. Sounds like both are playing tonight, and hopefully we'll see 2 games worth of beautiful dekes and sublime defense all wrapped up in 60 minutes.

You do realize that the role you're describing is the role he'd almost certainly be in now had we not signed Hossa, and that next year when we lose whoever it is we end up losing, that is the role he will probably fill? So what? Since when is the determining factor as to a player's value whether or not they play at Hank and Pavel's level? We'd be trading away a lot more players than just Flip ...

Downey and Leino called up. I'm anxious to see Leino, but I hope Downey is in tonight to answer the bell when Ott starts running our guys again. Fisticuffs!

Good, I wouldn't be surprised if we see Downey tonight to keep Ott honest.

yeah, but that's only if you add up the dollars. If we ignore that, I think it's a great idea!

Possibly, but if you announce the players at the end of the season they'd have planty of notice. Maybe even increase the number of players selected, so a few absences won't be a huge deal. Players manage to come to teh awards show, I'm sure they could work it out ...

I can certainly understand and respect that. I don't like Pronger either, and wouldn't choose to have him here, but if that's what happened I'm sure I would see a "different side of him", at least to some extent.

Flip is playing on the 3rd line ... no it's not the season we all envisioned, but it's also not the spot on te depth chart we envisioned. Regardless, getting rid of Flip doesn't clear anywhere near enough room for Hossa, Franzen, and Huddles.

It's okay to puke. But then you drink another beer, clean it up in the morning, and life goes on ...

Not a chance ... other than Flip, eliminating most of those guys clears very little cap room becuase they don't make much this year, and you still have to replace them with someone.

Outstanding!

The first change need to be in how the players are chosen. Fans get 1 vote, period. It's not that hard to work out. Second, change the injury rule. Certainly the league can find a better way to verify players' health than forced suspensions. If a player is hurt, they should be exempt, period. There are plenty of other stars who don't get selected who can satisfy the fans. Third, move the game to the weekend after the Finals. Hell, maybe even hold it in the winning team's arena? Make the NHL season awards ceremony part of the weekend.

I agree, I think 50 pts is probably about right for Flip, and $3M is about right for that. I wouldn't be upset if moving him meant keeping Hossa, though I do think he may be more valuable to the team in the long run than Hudler - not points-wise, but maybe in all-around contributions.

I think you've already acknowledged the problem. Hudler is 24, he has at least 10 years of prime earning potential in front of him. Granted, the first 2 years are ridiculously high, but I'm not sure he'd go for that. Franzen is 29, you might have better luck with him. I wonder how much the player's would value a contract that is front-loaded to such an extreme? Looking at Z's, most of th eyears are pretty balanced until the very end ...

12 years is why it's $6M a year ...

I gotcha. In Flip's defense, he's been stuck on the 3rd line with no PP time this year. Obviously it hasn't boosted his value, but I don't think it's diminished his upside terribly ...

Why not? What do you have against Cleary?

I understand what you're saying, and it's certainly an option, but we didn't sign him for $3million a year to be a defensive forward, that's just the role he's been stuck in this year, largely due to signing Hossa. His upside is better than that.

I like this: Not "the Red Wings didn't want him to make more" ... damn, we have some character guys on this team.

The proof is in the pudding ... (what the hell does that mean, anyway?)

Yes, but he still hasn't proven that he's better than what he's proven to be ... (edit: for clarification, this isn't a swipe at Flip, just being silly)

True, he is one a 1-year deal, but I seem to recall that's all we offered at the time because we needed to see how everything would play out with Z, the other FA'a, and also the cap. I think he could probably earn around what he's making now if we frontload a contract similar to Z's to bring the cap hit down ... but that wouldn't leave much for the other roster spots.

It's a slippery slope, Marian ...

I was wondering that too, but I'm guessing the league would veto it if we tried to give him a 20 year contract where the last 10 are for 1 million apiece.