lomekian

Not content with the usual bad calls the NHL now makes up the rules to screw the wings during the game. FFS

Awful winning goal to concede...no pressure on the puck. But basically the wild got2 freebies....

Franzen starting to get more engaged at last...2 good hits in his last 2 shifts.

oh s***...immediate delay of game penalty....oops

f*** you refs....dont get all the smith hate...he's been really positive for most of the game. At least he's not a coward like kindl

clear trip on tatar missed....sigh

f*** me. I only get to watch games every so often, and every one is majorly influenced by incompetent officiating.

cheated by the refs on both goals...embarrassing again from the NHL.

I don't think tonight's call was the result of institutional bias. I do think it reflects an increasing problem with inconsistency in the league that has come with old refs struggling with the speed of the game and rule changes, which has lead to a lot of guessing on calls. Guessing increases the impact of personal bias or external pressure, but is no dishonest as such. But the league is determined to officiate the game in a way that is outdated and its leading to an increasing number of mistakes year on year. Its amazing how a league with transparency and accountability in its supplimentary discipline can be so lacking in it for vast swathes of its on ice officiating, including the particularly random non-reviewable calls. I know I'm an ignorant brit,but after 20 years of watching the NHL I'm far more confused about what is penalised and what is not than ever before. And for me its starting to impact directly on my ability to enjoy the sport And guess what...much as my bias enjoyed the LA cock-up as payback for the SJ one a few years back, that kind of situation is embarrassing. It makes the NHL look amateur. but then the limitations on video reviews are archaic and non-sensical. I think what is most frustrating is not the calls like today, but the impression that as the standard of officiating declines as the job becomes fundamentally more difficult, the NHL seems reluctant to give its officials the help they need. Its a similar situation in Soccer, but at least we can be sure that's down to FIFA/UEFA corruption cover-ups....

Yes and no. I've lost count of how many times this season and the last 2 where tight games involving the wings have been massively influenced by the officials. We all know the team has problems, and many are self inflicted, but as someone who has to watch games at unsociable hours most of the time, the constantly poor officiating is sapping my will to watch the games at a far greater rate than the incompetence of our veteran spare parts and the accident prone D

If that was what they called you may have a point....he is actually moving his stick OUT of the way.

I love Ice-hockey, but the standard of officiating in the NHL is making it harder and harder to watch games.

Good old NHL...i tune in for the last 2 minutes to see yet again the wings get ass-f***ed by a ridiculous call.

agree, sadly. Frustrating thing is that a number of the forwards played really well in the 3rd, but the others were poor and the D stunk

Dammit...shooters made it too easy for the lunatic redneck. I ******* hate tim thomas and his diving cheating ways....

Tatar strong again tonight...Franzen has looked more like good mule than evil mule panthers announcers just saying Dats is weak in teh shootout....FFS

Tatar strong again tonight

Tats high-sticked and bleeding...nothing given...after phantom goal waved off. f*** me the officiating in the NHL is embarrassing at times...like the netting goal against LA that echoed the SJ one against us. I mean FFS...the NHL does so many things well, but the things it gets wrong are pathetic

Stupid Babs playing 4 fwds on the PP last 3 mins left with a lead

Worst PP in a long time...amateurish

Ludicrous officiating again...Thomas sold it well though

Watching the Rags game and then reading the GDT I felt moved to post, given the vaguely suicidal feel to many of the posts. While I'm not averse to a coaching change, it might be worth noting that not only are the wings a playoff bubble team in transition, but they are currently having to dress Zetterburg, Bertuzzi, 3 borderline 4th liners and the AHL team. Oh my God lets kill ourselves and burn it down because we can't score and are losing ground. Well our star forward, 3 of our 5 top scorers, our big (albeit woefully underachieving) UFA signing and our only 3rd liners with any scoring threat and chemistry with the other players are all missing at once. Which leaves kids and the players who wouldn't be good enough to play filling in. Out of the team that iced tonight, up front its only really Z, Abdelkader, Miller and Nyquist who are guaranteed to even be playing here next year (barring trades). 1's a dime a dozen 4th liner who can PK, Abdelkader is a good team player with no scoring touch, and Nyquist is as cold as ice (and was unlucky off the post at the end). Sure Jurco has talent, but his lack of strength is exposed at this level, and Sheahan looks a long term defensive forward. As for the rest..cleary's a busted flush who has no legs left at all, despite the willingness of his spirit; Bert is a big body with good hands who is all but useless without a top playmaker and speed with him; Sammy is only here because we get nothing for sending him down and no one else wants him; Eaves is only up because of injuries, but is a serviceable 4th liner; Emmerton is just a warm body; Glendenning is an angry warm body who may one day make a genuine 4th liner... To put it another way, tonight we were without our planned centre's for all 4 lines, plus 3 of our top 5 scoring wingers (including Z here), and out top defensive D man. That's a lot to take out of a team against opposition in form. For a team who is already in mid evolution, its just too much. More importantly its the players with the attributes this team needs most (shooting, speed, composure) that are all out at once and Z is playing hurt. The penguins did great with their injuries, but even they didn;t have such a concentration of key players all out at once. The effort was there, we had over 35 shots (despite giving up a stupid amount), and Henrik actually made 3 or 4 world class saves...plus we dinged the iron. With half a team and some AHL scrubs. Much like last year, at least we are getting a good look at the next wave. Tats and Goose (though snakebitten) are now locks in this team. Sheahan and Jurco have shown they can contribute at this level in the right roles. Glendenning might make a useful AHL man who will clear waivers when needed next year (if waivers apply), and we have seen enough from Oullett and Marchenko to know that even if we can't snag a big UFA D-man this year, replacing Quincey will probably be a better value upgrade. So the evolution and youth movement we have all been bitching about is happening, and the only players who appear to have no value as future players or trades are the ones we all knew had no value anyway. The playoffs may be on the line, and we find ourselves 2 points on the outside looking in, and with plenty of company. But sure SOME of the walking wounded will be back before the Olympics? Tatar has been a real spark and he's back, and appears to be channelling his loss to help the team. Of course our PP is struggling....but then its our goalscorers who are missing. I also think that the likes of Jurco & Sheahan have shown enough to suggest they can contribute if they stay up. Obviously the problem is people like Sammy and Cleary, who without doing anything wrong contribute almost nothing, but also have no room to improve. The latter can still occasionally complement the right players, but not much. Bert is not much better, but his size and instincts mean that he still is worth his place as he brings attributes that we lack. I'm concerned about this year, but I'm really looking forward to next year already. Cleary, Sammy and Quincy are all gone for sure. Bert may be depending on his performance over the next few months. Eaves will be off to take an opportunity somewhere where his skillset isn't duplicated. We'll be left with a core of those have proven their worth even this year and those who have shown improvement that gives hope. Even Smith is looking pretty stable now he is more often free from the clutches of Quincy. We'll be out of our cap crunch, and places will be up for grabs for the senior kids at camp. I hope Alfie stays, but if not there are a few FAs that can contribute. Weiss is the big worry, but we'll see. Personally, I think we'll squeeze into the playoffs much like last year, bolstered by getting healthy just in time, and then will upset a top seed or two in the postseason, much like last year.

I'm encouraged by and enjoying the debate on this thread, which for a while looked like it might just turn into the mindlessly negative few repeating the same anti-Holland, anti-Babcock, anti-veteran mantras. Agree that the crunch of the impact of the salary cap era is finally catching up, and that we may not be far from a re-build, but I don't think we are there yet. The problem we have is that even if we attempted to venture into firesale mode, the only pieces that would worth a lot in terms of rebuild assets are the ones we don't want to lose. Perhaps Mrazek might make Howard expendable, but really, how much would this team get in terms of prospects or picks for anyone not named Kronwall, Zetterburg, Dats or Dekeyser? Sure Ericsson would have some value but he's JUST re-signed and is the kind of Dman our roster and prospect pool is too short of. Franzen's value is the lowest it has been and being out with concussion doesn't help. Helm won't garner much while there are still question marks over fitness, and a fit helm is more valuable to us than most other teams out there. I'd be loathe to lose Tatar or Nyquist unless we get something great in return, as not only would be vital for a re-build in the short term, but also with the kids we have on the farm mostly having decent size, we can actually afford to dress some skilled small guys going forwards. I also think that unless we really burn it down, this team will still be too good to finish low enough to get a top pick....maybe in really deep draft year it wouldn't matter, but this year ain't judging by scouting, and next is uncertain. Our core and our coaching are too good and too proud to completely bomb. I think despite the difficulty of re-tooling, the composition of our roster and prospect pool actually makes it easier to spend the next couple years on the bubble and then improve than it would be to bomb and re-build. I feel if we go down the fire sale route, it may take longer to come back. That said, much depends on things that will become much clearer by the middle of next season. Can Z & D stay healthy and motivated? Can helm get fit and stay fit? Can Mule get fit enough to continue to frustrate but still justify his salary? He drives us mad, but when he's hot he wins games in bunches. Can Weiss at least contribute decent two-way play when fit? Can Smith continue his recent up-turn in play? Has Howie settled down now? Will Alfie want to return? Will Mantha continue his amazing trajectory? Can 2 of Marchenko, Almquist, Ferraro, Sheahan, Callahan or Jurco show that they are ready for regular NHL duty on the lines they are projected for next year? If its yes to them all, we find ourselves backing Holland keeping on this path. If its yes to more than it is no, then we'll continue to be a playoff team but will need to become a little more adventurous in the trade market. If its no to considerably more than it is yes then its time bring the petrol and firelighters. This season is too early to judge, not just because of the injuries meaning we have barely seen an approximation of a full roster, but also because New Conference, influx of kids or couple of FAs and probably most importantly, most of the deadwood can be got rid of this summer, giving us far more flexibility. If we lose Sammy, Quincey, Cleary, Eaves & Bert and any of those on the farm out of waiver options can cement a place on the big team, we suddenly have 7-10m to spend on 1 or 2 FAs even after RFA signings and bringing back Alfie. If the latter leaves we have 10-13m for 2 or 3 slots, with the core of the team still in place. Just looking at the new CBA, our contract commitments (some due to mistakes by Holland), and the timing of our successful draft picks coming to fruition, this was always going to be the worst year for the Red Wings out of the last 20+ . If most of my above questions can be answered in the affirmative this time nest year, the wings will be in a really strong position. This season will continue to be painful, and the playoff streak might end...but this summer we will be in a position to re-invigorate the roster with youth and better quality FAs (even if it does mean overpaying slightly), and Detroit will still be an attractive destination while the main men are here, particularly as everyone can see the farm starting to produce going forwards.

True..but I have to confess I'm not looking any further than Wild Card here.... I long thought the jilted smugness of Wings fans re Jagr was ill-founded. Sure money and personal achievements may be more of a motivator for him than others, but as he has shown, they seem to have motivated him just fine for a couple of decades! As for hunger, I don't think it applies to most of the roster. Problem is that there were already too many players not of the required standard even before injuries. Fact is too many just arent good enough.

But the exception that you have just said they are is the exception I said they were. The only difference is that when I checked the stats the wings are doing better than any team with comparable injuries not called Pittsburgh or Anaheim, and the wings injuries have been to far more important players than most of the other teams with comparable injury totals. As I also said, for all the doom and gloom and the struggle the team are in, the wings are 3 points off 5th with at least one game in hand over 5 of the six teams directly above them. Despite having a much worse injury record than those teams directly above them. Admit that this is a concern..as has been alluded too, much depends on the time before that. I think after the Olympics the combination of willpower and a relatively short stretch and hopefully a morale boost for some will help. As a brit with little interest in the international game from a personal emotional perspective, I just hope that all our players that go there give a good account of themselves and return motivated and confident....