lomekian

They really are the exception to the rule, and they are starting from the position of having one of the best rosters in the NHL, and certainly with the best player, who remarkably has nt been one of the injured parties. As per my earlier post, lots of people compare the wings to them and Anaheim to show how injuries shouldn't be a factor. Both are teams where the role players have massively over-achieved and both have strong rosters on paper in the first place. Perhaps more useful is to see that every other team with similar game days lost through injury are doing worse than us this year, and its only Pittsburgh who have lost better players than us (or a large number of core players). Most teams have lost a couple of top 6 ers and a top 4 d-man and then the scrubs. Our scrubs seem to be made of tungsten compared to our top guys

Neither do I, but that doesn't make it impossible. Boston aren't at the level they were, and Seidenburg (sp?) is a big loss for them. And remember last year, with a roster no better than this one, we were within inches of taking out the best team an eventual winners. If the wings get healthy and make the playoffs, they will be the low seed that everyone wants to avoid. A goalie that can get hot, a hungry alfie, 3 or 4 key players with Stanley Cup winning experience who are still near their peaks, and the likes of tatar and nyquist who have already shown good playoff form. And of course, if helm can actually return and stay fit, thats a massive plus. Obviously health is the issue. Boston or Pittsburgh would rightly be favourites, but I''m pretty sure the same applied to Anaheim last year...

Semi agree....I think moving Howard would be counter-productive at this stage unless its a deal really stacked in our favour. I also think Tatar has shown the talent, attitude and personality to be more valuable to us than on the trade market. Going down your route, I'd be loathe to lose Abdelkader too given that he has as many hits as about half out roster combined. All the others I'd be open to losing, bar the core you've already highlighted. Looking farmwards, I think we'd be foolish to part with Jurco, Mantha, Sproul, Oullett, Mrazek or Marchenko unless again the odds are very much stacked in our favour as all have shown at worst the potential to be better than what we have, and the first 5 have pretty high end potential. Everyone else is up for grabs. Tootoo would bring more than Sammy and Cleary, but somehow he has never looked like he fits to me. He always seems on a different page to his line-mates. And obviously his salary is too high. I like him, and maybe we'll see him as part of a re-structured roster next year. I agree about the future need, but sadly so does every other team in the NHL, so they are bloody hard to get hold of. At least Mantha will have size to protect himself and Sheahan won't get tossed around too much. I think hoping Mckee pans out may be too optimistic though. Big Buff would bring a fair amount, but what would it take? And with the cap is it possible? Agree about the lack of hitting. Its why for all his limitations I like Abdelkader...he moves his feet, plays the body and at least does so knowing how the skilled players in this team play. If tootoo could develop that level of understanding he'd be a lot more valuable, but as I said, he looks to me like a guy playing a role (and doing it perfectly well), but almost regardless of the system. I agree changes if they miss the playoffs, but rebuild is a dangerous word when the team is still too good to bomb. This team healthy is still a playoff team, and only a few judicious decisions from being a comfortable playoff team again. The world and his wife know that Sammy, Cleary and Quincey were mistakes, and frustratingly ones that set back this teams development when there isn't much wiggle room. Equally Eaves PLUS Miller is a waste...one or t'other. All this issues will be resolved this summer...then its a case of possible replacements. Regarding the rest of the team, its hard to know where we stand with so many players out simultaneously. A big question will be can Weiss contribute at all, and do any of the injuries look like long term lingerers?

Cleary lucky to not get suspended for a clear cheap shot, but the league has set its precedent. As for the film Green Street....its really not very good....thankfully those days of hooliganism are mostly in the past in the UK (check out Germany/Holland and Eastern Europe for current violence), but trust me, some the old hoolies i've had the dubious pleasure of meeting would have taken about 5 minutes to hospitalise everyone in that film. Really scary psychos a lot of them..

I agree with this to a degree. I think Nyquist and especially Tatar had pretty much made their point a while ago. That said I only agree to a degree because Clearly, Sammy and Quincey have been SO bad this year, a blind man could see it, and Bert has been disappointing for long stretches too. Quincey's on course for a +/- about 23 or 24 worse than last year, all of Cleary's stats are worse, which seemed unimaginably last year, Sammy fit has been marginally better than Sammy on IR, and fit again Bert is on course for his worst ever points total by a margin. The only one you can make a case for Bert because his salary is low and he has a skillset not replicated anywhere else on the roster. And he plays better with better players. Ideally none will be back, and Bert's the only one with an outside chance. Doesn't help when the league seem fine with your best player getting a concussion from a blatant elbow to the head. Not sure heavies is really the issue...most of our current injuries are not from cheap shots or particularly heavy on ice collisions (at least officially). Of course the holy grail of big bastards who can play like Lucic would be a dream, but who would be mad enough to part with them for a price we could afford with the playoffs approaching. As for dropping the trash for picks....maybe for Quincey? But who's going to give us anything for Cleary, Sammy or Bert?

I think we all know that the Red Wings we are used to are gone. The Salary cap and 2 and half decades of no high draft picks made that an inevitability. That and the fact that a great team in decline is not quite as alluring for FAs as it was. But I see this as a dip rather than a collapse as the cap won't be so tight, and this year the deadwood have played SO badly it is beyond credibility to bring them back. Also we have the best stock of farm talent in a decade or more. As for panicking this season, I think we should certainly be concerned, but so many are talking like its already game over. What I have found encouraging has been how despite our depleted line up, we have kept most the recent games close, and this is largely due to having Howard back on form, and better prevention of 2nd chances around the crease over the last few games. We give up too many shots, but rebounds haven't just been hanging around as much as earlier in the season, and this makes me feel more positive about the possible effect of the return of our important players. In that when we had almost a full line up, Howard's form and the habits in the back end seemed worse. Also, I'd rather be positive than negative. The thought that "If the Wings don't win at LEAST 6 games out of that 11 you can kiss the playoff streak goodbye." doesn't phase me. The team will have to try to do that. At least this little run of games against the best goaltenders in the NHL is over for the moment, and it looks like we start getting people back in the next few days. Surely the home form has to turn around? I guess I feel that with some key men returning this team is capable of winning 6 of 11. Though it would be lot better if we could start scoring in SOs Thank heavens for some positivity! And I agree about Bert. He''s not what we really want on the top line, but for his salary he does enough. True..but we are also only 3 points off 5th....and only Boston above us haven't played more games

"handcuffed the team to some very poor players and he refuses to do anything to solve it. " - Tad dramatic. Its only sammy who has stopped us signing anyone better. Cleary joined too late to really impact on FA decisions, and most on here were ok if not excited about Bert's last contract. Of course the impact of these veterans is a disappointment, and I do think Babcock's line decisions are often in defiance of logic. But Sammy and Clearly's legs have both gone, and both Sammy and Bert have only ever been productive with speed alongside them. I agree about the defence, and I'd like to see more Almqvist...but offensively only Kronwall has an pedigree at this level. Smith has talent, but is still working out how to play at this level, and Kindl has always flattered to deceive. My point isn't "of course we can't score with these lines!", but rather, the mediocrity of our defensive core's points output means the onus is more on our forwards, most of whom are MIA. I feel that there should be a little more slack cut to a vast collection of penalty killers and 3/4 liners trying to support an injured Zetterberg when they have been getting decent shot totals, and actually beat LA last week.

Seasons ago? Nonsense. Last season maybe...ok cleary re-signing sticks in the throat because it was one no-one wanted, but Bert at least has been worth his contract up until this year,(and was still under contract) and as I said at least possesses some qualities that this roster is lacking in. Crucially, their presence this year hasn't realistically cost us anything bar a few more games for Nyquist and a run in the side for the enjoyable but ill suited to this team Tootoo. The only really bad signing was Sammy, which I think confused us all at the time and has proven to be an albatross that has stopped us picking up someone who would contribute more. As for other teams with injuries doing better...guess what the only one with injuries to important players comparable to our own is Pittsburgh, and I don't think anyone is under any illusions regarding the comparative quality levels of the two core rosters (they had to benefit from flatlining for the best part of a decade eventually), and that trade with Dallas looked like daylight robbery at the time, let alone now. Anaheim are also comparable but they are having a super year. All the other teams with similar or worse injury levels are doing worse in the standings, so your argument is not so accurate. Also looking at the individuals injured, we've had far more injuries to the core than most other teams. There is nothing to say we won't have injuries all the rest of the year bar the balance of probability, which is generally how most people make decisions. Helm of course is a concern, but his current injury is seemingly unrelated to the back problem, and its usual in every sport for long absences to result in muscle injuries. Crucially his impact when he came back suggested that he hasn't lost much strength or explosiveness, so that bodes well longer term. The prognosis on Mule's concussion is that he is recovering...he doesn't have a history of them so its hard to draw any conclusions. Dats and Alfie are of course starting to get niggly injuries related to wear and tear, but there has been no suggestion that either is particularly serious. Ericsson's is a standard impact injury..no worries there. Weiss we know about,, but he should come back stronger after surgery than before it...but he's not exaclty been our biggest loss.

When the refs are making phantom calls Lashoff really shouldn't be swinging his stick like its baseball. Idiot,

Every time I watch the wings this season either they play like crap or they get f***ed up the arse by awful officiating...sigh

After that call on nyquist and no coincidental call for Neil again roughing up the smallest guy on the team, I'm out. I keep staying till f*** knows what o clock in the morning, and 2/3 of all the games I watch are significantly influenced one way or another by the officials. I'm done. Highlights only till the playoffs for me.....its no longer worth my time watching the games.

The problem with the NHL as well is that its pretty bent as an organisation, so there is never any comeback for abject refereeing

These referees are again a ******* joke. I love ice hockey, but every game I watch is riddled with poor officiating. This is just an embarrassment.

Really cowardly stuff...as someone said its like Pronger's Ducks all over again.

That was so ******* dirty. The refs are an embarrassment..cheating scum

and the refs so their job

Nice faking of the cut there....

Its the problem i have with the NHL. the more I watch it the more I think that the standard of certain aspects of officiating is appalling.....

Weak officiating turning a blind eye to all kinds of dirty play and cheating and blocking from the Sens

A view from the Uk from one addicted enough to watch almost every minute by hook or by crook....only some minor differences. Justin Abdelkader: B+ : He lacks the touch, instincts or strength on his skates to be a point scorer, but every line he's played on has looked marginally better with him than without him. His hitting seems to have become more consistent, and his passing has improved. Daniel Alfredsson: B: The class and smarts are super evident, and he has really had an impact on the PP, but the flesh is not always as willing as the spirit, and he still trying to work out how best to integrate with his team-mates. Needs to shoot more. May be worth another shot with D & Z, because if he can get open...... Joakim Andersson: B. Faceoffs and defensive play are Andersson’s roles, and he has improved a bit on both. Skating and finishing still needs work and he needs legs around him to maximise his strengths, - like a few on this team. Unless Helm comes back 100% and Glendenning kicks on massively, he looks a solid 4th line fixture. Todd Bertuzzi: B-. Still too many dumb penalties. Seems even slower than before. Close in finishing skills keep people honest, but ideally he'd be the goal threat on a 3rd line with a great skater and a bona fida hitter. Still capable of very very smart plays near the net, but needs to be with the right personnel. Daniel Cleary: D. Just occasionally he does something really smart or really gutsy to remind you of the player he was 4-6 years ago. But the legs seem to have gone, and unlike Bert, he has no idea how to play without them. He's now basically a plug and play 13th forward in all honesty, and re-signing him currently looks as odd as we all thought. Another who would REALLY benefit if Helm comes back and can still fly. Datsyuk: A. still the magic man, on a team increasingly reliant on that magic, and still SO GOOD defensively, but has looked a little worn out at having to carry so many around him at times already. Still him and Z are so far above the rest up front, its slightly embarrassing. Danny DeKeyser: A. In danger of being 3rd d-man already, and if we could clone him our D would be so much better situated. Kind of the opposite of Smith. Less raw talent, far more knowledge of how to use it. His level of calm for one of his experience is remarkable. You just feel kind of safer when he's on ice. Another 15 years in Detroit please young man. Patrick Eaves: N/A. Before the concussion looked a probable long term 3rd/4th liner here, but every chance we may not see him play for Detroit again. Who knows though.... Cory Emmerton: C-.Just not quite good enough at anything to really be worth it at the big club. A decent enough plug with seemingly a good attitude, but unless he somehow blows people away at the AHL, this will be his last year in Detroit. Jonathan Ericsson: A-. The faith some of us held has largely been rewarded. Probably still more accurately a no3 than a no2, but much like DD, you feel safer with him around. Always slightly surprised how good his first pass is. Johan Franzen: C+ The bane of many on here, he's never going to change. Will end up with 25 goals and 50 points, including a real tear at some point, while still pissing everyone off. From the games i've seen, he doesn't have a clue how to play with Weiss, and is only starting to get his head around Alfie. Looked a little invigorated with abdelkader joined him. But his 5 shift spurts of being almost unstoppable and his fair salary makes me think a buy out is unlikely. Again, needs more speed around him. Luke Glendening: B. Will need the time he has on his side, both for the bottom 6 logjam to clear, and also to continue getting quicker, stronger and slightly more threatening offensively. But the fact he pretty much ended Emmerton's long term Detroit career after 2 games tells you how noticeable his energy and PK impact were. Not to the same extent, but like DD, just seems an instinctively good decision maker. Jonas Gustavsson: B++. Brilliant then awful then Brilliant again, topped off with an Ok cherry. Disconcerting to see such a big guy Hasek-ing in net, but looks a decent bet at back-up this year, and is the kind of 'tender who might hit a hot streak when called upon, but you always worry about the potential soft goals. Darren Helm: N/A. If he can come back and stay fit, and get back up to SPEEEEEEEEEED, his skating and general dynamism could make SUCH a difference to the team and a number of players on it. Jimmy Howard: A-. Solid as ever, without being quite in the top top echelons. Has had some really bad luck on goals against this year (deflections,O.G's, bad bounces etc). Jakub Kindl: B. Pretty Solid - still could be a bit braver against aggressive forechecking - but has picked up from where last year's improvement left off. Can be trusted most of the time, but needs to either justify more PK time or create a bit more offensively to be a long term important piece. I think everyone's happy enough with him without being that excited. Niklas Kronwall: A. Continuing his increased responsibility levels and by far our best D offensively, he still feels a little more like a no2 than a no1, especially at times in his own end, but is clearly our most important component after the twins and Howie. Brian Lashoff: B. A 7th D who sometimes looks like a 6, he's been a little better than last year, and has relaxed into playing within his limitations. Absolute ceiling as a 5th D, but is now ready to be used in exactly the way he has been. A ship steadier on the bottom pairing, and with a small salary and limited trade value, likely to stick around for this year at least. Drew Miller: C. Mostly excellent on the PK, and still solid defensively, but when you have less points than Emmerton in 3 times as many games, you need to contribute more. Has had chances too. The ill-advised fight was just a bit odd. Part of the bottom 6 malaise without being bad. Xavier Ouellet: N/A. Looked every inch the future NHL-er, but a swallow doesn't make a summer. Impressive poise. Kyle Quincey: C. Him and Smith bring out the worst in each other. At times Quincey has been pretty good, and another who has done pretty well on the PK, but still the most likely apart from Smith to miss an asignment or fumble the puck, or fail to clear the zone. If he had been the 4th rounder he was we'd be pretty happy with him, but the trade and his salary are an ugly albatross. Also you suspect, much like first time round, he'd be a better fit on a different team. His +/- is a little harsh on him, but only a little. Mikael Samuelsson: D. Babs seems to have cut him out, and he didn't really show enough in his 4 games to argue with that. 4 games, 3 shots, 1 goal, +/- of 0 and 8.57 ATOI isn't so bad, but he was floating like Franzen but without the inherent threat to back it up. Could improve as the season goes on, as he showed he's still reasonably solid defensively, but we all want him gone and he probably knows it. Brendan Smith: C-. Opposite of DD. Lots of lovely glimpses and at times looks the part, but a total lack of calm mean there have been more horror moments. Really needs to cut the bad pinches out ASAP, and somehow find some calmness on the puck, and probably engage more physically. Really, him and KQ go together like Water and Sezium. You can do it, but I'm not sure its terribly wise other than as an interesting experiment. Continues to threaten progress, but yet to achieve it. Desperately needs some calmness alongside him to help him lose the jitters. Tomas Tatar: N/A. Invariably looks like he will make something happen, and at least drives to the net, unlike so many others. Still a little small, and positionally a little suspect, but great work-rate and points look like they will come. 3rd line or higher please. Jordin Tootoo: B- Still not always the best positionally, but has cut out the bad penalties for the moment, has had a few chances, and stops us nodding off when the 4th line are on the forecheck. If he was half the salary or in a team that played more his style, no-one would question his value. But for $1.9m, he's just not worth it to the wings. I just hope when he is traded, he goes back out West..... Stephen Weiss: D+ Pretty responsible, and seems to have the right instincts (and is not frightened to go to dirty areas), but is slower and worse on the puck than I remember him. Has been massively out-performed by Fil so far in terms of points, and is appearing to offer less than out-of-sorts Fil last year. More worryingly for me, he hasn't shown much to indicate we'll see a whole lot more from him any time soon, as he's pretty much had no chemistry with anyone he's been put with. The season is of course young, but he's been a massive disappointment for me, particularly with his passing Henrik Zetterberg: A.Looking better than for all but a few stretches last year, and is still suitably symbiotic with Dats. Again occasionally looking a little drained, and regardless of the example he is setting, his leadership is being affected by the paucity of the team around him. Bottom line for me is, we'll probably still make the playoffs again, but even with Helm hopefully returning, next year needs to see Tootoo, Sammy, Clearly, Bert (unless at 500-750k) and one of Eaves or Miller to leave, as not only do they not offer enough to justify their salary levels, but also their overall lack of impact is depressing. Quincey will probably leave too. Weiss has it all to prove, and Smith needs to settle down as we go along. This year will be pretty similar to last for me.

He's an offence first defence-man who has always been erratic in his own end, who is being encouraged to play with the hand-break on to aid his long-term development and become more solid at the back end, while being paired with essentially a more solid, less skilled version of himself. His pinches are often unwise, and he passes up the middle too much for my liking, but I think if we can pair him with someone calmer and more defensively minded, we could see his development accelerate. Him and Quincey have too many of the same flaws to really work as a pairing, and although KC is the better defenceman as things stand, he's much closer to his ceiling. Smith at least has occasionally shown real high end potential. And for all his moments of monumental stupidity, he doesn't have quincey's flaw of never clearing the bloody zone on the PK. Neither of them are bad, but I'd keep them apart. Smith is the 6th best of the D who can sometimes play worse than Lashoff, because his game is much more about risk. Basic problem is the same as we knew it would be. We lost lids, Raf & Stuart in the blink of an eye, and White went backwards badly, leaving the wings having to replace 3 of their top 4 and 4 of their top 6 far too quickly, and in Quincey made the wrong choice about who best to bring in to supplement the existing core. I think Kindl's improvement actually complicated the issue, as in his own way he is not totally dissimilar to smith and Quincey. DD has started the process of giving our defence more balance, but we need another guy (and more experienced than lashoff) who is D first in exchange for Quincey at years end. Kronner, Kindl & Smith as the more offensive guys and Big E, DD and A N Other playing the safer role. However, the fact that 6 of our front 12 are not currently justifying their salaries is a far more pressing issue to resolve, as it would be foolish not to give smith time.

Great patience for the assist by Alfie

Mule's even laying the body today...

Don Cherry has a lot of knowledge, but he's also an out-dated rent-a-quote arse, who only likes good ol' Canadian boys. On the broader issue, I've always though the 'unwritten NHL code' about goal celebrations that seems to have been adopted is a massive load of bulls***, and utterly hypocritical bulls*** at that. I want to see players celebrate. I love hockey, but some of the attitudes that still surround the game in the NHL are small town, parochial and massively outdated - right from the league and owners down. Also anyone who genuine believes exuberant celebrations by a kid who's just got his 4th of the game in his first few games with an absolute beauty is worse than some of the dirty hits that Don Cherry loves needs their ******* head examined.

Brilliant player, who was the best D-man on every team he played on. Sadly, never learnt the difference between being a mean S-O-B and being a dirty, spot-picking, snide bully who was a cheap shot master. I'm sure if he had played for Bowman he would have learnt to be a better and less dirty player. But he was always playing on teams known to be indulgent towards dirty play....