VM1138

Right about perfect. That's the going rate for a second pair guy, and he's a very good one, and that should be a still in a few years.

Now, had he stayed in Detroit he's looking at another what, 24 hours round trip to what you just calculated? I think I'm done with this site.

You're right. A three hour flight is totally what it would be to fly internationally from Detroit to his home. The IQ in this place has dropped considerably the last year or two.

He didn't put it out there. He addressed the rumors once they were gaining traction to reduce the uncertainty. And why do you keep citing a 30 hour drive? He's never going to drive to see her. Someone noted it's like a three hour flight. Be reasonable.

But he won't be good this season, I'd bet.

It's LGW. If it's not hyperbole it's not worth typing.

We don't know that Chychrun will be anything of note. Over half the league had a chance to get him and passes. Maybe there's something to that. I'm not too concerned about missing out on a prospect we weren't going to draft anyway.

From 2010-2012 there were so many injuries that there was a lot of uncertainty. On paper the team looked good so a lot of us Holland apologists were just waiting to get healthy to see what we really had. I still maintain we got screwed in '10 and decimated in '11. I think it was the 12-13 season that thins really started to slip, but the strong showing in the playoffs bought Holland more time. 2014-16 has been an unmitigated disaster dotted with moments of hope (Nyquist, Tatar, Larkin).

I love Osgood, he's one of the legendary Red Wings in the sense that Maltby, Draper and McCarty are legendary. He absolutely got us that '08 Cup but I don't think we should retire his number. He was rarely that crucial lynchpin for the team through lots of years that Federov, Datsyuk and Zetterberg were. Datsyuk is synonymous with the number 13 in my book. I used to believe that Zetterberg should go with Datsyuk, too, but his decline has been sharper than Datsyuk's, and while he did carry this team into the playoffs--in '13 was it?--he didn't carry this team as consistently as, say, Yzerman. I wouldn't be opposed to his number being retired eventually but I don't think we need to rush to do it. Maybe do an unofficial retirement like Aurie's number 6 for a while until his legacy really solidifies over time.

This has been discussed ad nauseum. It's far easier to visit family within the same country than internationally. Plus, he will actually be nearby frequently because of the teams he will play. It's not that hard to grasp, people.

The agile goalies will get better or at least not auffer as badly. The rest are toast.

The team hasn't changed much, for sure. We got a net front presence, so we improved there, and we made a lateral move with Nielsen replacing a crippled Datsyuk. But that's it. Maybe slightly more agitatorish with Ott. But still basically the same team. Basically it all hinges on Vanek transforming into a stud who gives us the net front presence. So not a hugely drastic change.

I'm pretty sure like 18 of those 23 trades were forced on him, too. Favors like with Commodore, etc. Trades for picks and contracts. All while the roster declined.

That's a hot mess of a lineup.

I thought Sarijaarvi was projected to be a stud?

Well this is going nowhere. These arguments always devolve into an all or nothing approach. Throw in a lot of misinterpretations and you got yourself a show. This forum gets worse and worse each year.

It's not that we don't understand them or are intimidated by them. It's that the numbers don't hold up unless they are properly contextualized. Any statistician would tell you the same thing but these analytic fans don't realize that. Plus they love to talk down to the rest of us, which added together makes us long time hockey fans disregard most things stats fans say. I think we have to have a combination. If the stats seem way off the mark (like Smith being better than Lidstrom) we can't just blindly accept them. There's room for intuition, observation and stats, taken altogether.

I want to get rid of Ericsson as much as you guys, but it just makes way more sense to keep him rather than buy him out. It's cheaper that way. They just have to be brave enough to scratch him regardless of his contract.

Mrazek's going to get paid, that's for sure. In this era of long contracts, he'll be signed for 8 years, no doubt.

Well there goes a bargaining chip. His one and only talent, the slapper, will probably be effected by shoulder surgery. Sigh.

You missed his point. A fourth line of Pulkinnen, Sheahan and Jurco would be gifting the other team a goal or two a game. Pulkinnen is almost entirely useless, Jurco is an okay all around guy. Nothing special. Sheahan is good defensively but not great. All you've done is created a line that can't do anything all that well but can fail spectacularly when the game is on the line.

Everyone keeps mentioning Zetterberg's back. Last I heard his back is totally fine ever since he had that surgery. He's just slowing down naturally. Everyone keeps mentioning Zetterberg's back. Last I heard his back is totally fine ever since he had that surgery. He's just slowing down naturally.

I'd seriously consider trading Mantha now, whereas I wouldn't have a few days ago. It's clear management isn't very high on him and he's not going to get a very good shot to make the team unless he pulls a Larkin. His development because of this is basically finished in our system. He has some value, so bring us a defender, Kenny.

I agree that a tough guy doesn't help us win. What we need are tough hockey players. Like an Abdelkader with a bit more talent. We need guys who can hit and clear space more than guys who will fight.