RedWings Gone Wild

You're making some leaps in logic here... For starters, teams get to finals, not goalies... and your examples illustrate this perfectly. The first example is San Jose's lack of progress being due to Nabokov? You've got to be joking. That team consistently goes from top scorer to nothing every postseason. Nabokov's averages are consistently superior to his regular season efforts, and if you doubt his big game ability you won't after the Olympic break.. Osgood is among the best playoff performers of recent memory, but not the best, sorry, no one outside of Detroit would agree with that assertion. If he was stuck on San Jose with No-show Joe and the gang, then he would be golfing every summer too, I assure you. As for Ozzie being here to get us to the finals... not even Ozzie can get a team to the finals that doesn't make the playoffs.. so the idea that he can waffle through the regular season and be okay simply doesn't hold water since we are no longer a team that can win despite a 3.00+ GAA.. We also don't have Conklin around to bail him out anymore either. And even though he had a good postseason last year, the previous postseason was an immensely superior effort and was paired with one of his best regular seasons, suggesting to me that there is a correlation between his regular season performance and playoff play. His positioning has been atrocious, his rebound control has been sub par, and he looks like he has the psychological resilience of a rookie at times. I want nothing but the best for him, but he clearly needs to shape up, because we simply aren't a team that can afford letting in all those goals anymore.

Green's probably going to be due soon too, and if Varlamov takes the starting job, he'll be headed for big bucks.. I'm not sure how much Laich has left on his deal, but he'll be due for a huge pay raise too with the number of points he's been racking up the past two seasons. I could see them having to shed some cap, but at the same time the Caps have a very pro-European feel right now, and I could see guys like Semin and Backstrom taking a little less to get to stay in that environment. Not to mention, playing on a line with Ovie is like free points every night, I think you would see a big decrease in production from Semin and Backstrom if they were on a less talented team, so there is that motivation to stay as well.

Let me be the first to say I have ZERO interest in trading Ozzie, and I am one of his biggest critics. Quite frankly we will not find a starting goaltender with cup experience for his price. Period. End of discussion. His price also makes him untradeable, because quite frankly most of the goaltenders worth trading for, are out of our price range, and I have no interest in rolling the dice on an unproven goalie with a years work of decent play on his resume (see Hiller's play of late... or Jim Carrey, Irbe, Kipper, or any of the other dozens of "Elites" who have gone from Hero to Zero in a week, and simply get by on reputation more than actual performance). My fear lies more with the fact that he has zero competition for the starting job, and if something happens... like Osgood playing poorly or going down with an injury... we do not have a backup that has given any indications of being able to handle the pressure and workload necessary to start in the NHL... Howard has had a few decent games, and I'm not at a point where I feel we should give up on him, but conversely he hasn't given me any reason to believe that he's going to work out... and I certainly wouldn't be comfortable having him in net for a cup run. Also, yes, Osgood's only allowed one goal in two games (with the help of a number of posts), but he is still among the worst in save percentage and GAA... It's still quite premature to start declaring a return to form.

Since Lebda only has a year left... he's basically a rental... so either a conditional pick or a real low pick would probably be all we get...

Didn't see any reports on it, but apparently Atlanta has invited Legace to their training camp. The link has a lot of non-related news and such too. Link Thoughts on this? Are the Thrashers not sold on Lehtonen after his injury problems, or is there any likelyhood he makes the team? The Thrashers have one of the lowest caps in the league (4th or 5th from the bottom if I remember correctly) so they could certainly afford to sign Legace for a 1 year deal.

Yes, very true. But if Howard doesn't prove himself quickly, I don't think Holland trusts his skills enough to make him our #2 easily... I get a sense that there is very little faith in Howard, and if he sucks, or if something else happens (injury to him or Osgood, etc... knock on wood), then I could easily see us going for a Legace-like insurance policy... tho I don't think it would be Manny.

Like every half-decent Canadian team they have high expectations, they just never exceed/meet them. All I've heard all offseason is how good Calgary, Vancouver, and Montreal are going to be, and how improved Toronto will be. They will all disappoint. You basically have to have Ottowa's season to get expectations off your back up north. I think Vancouver's defense is improved, but they will still lack the scoring to get it done. But then again, they have 9 defenders signed, and Sundin still hasn't made up his mind... It remains to be seen what kind of team they will be.

Well, the reason I give this rumor more credence is because Atlanta MUST be entering desperation mode with Kovulchuk at this point. They've had no luck attracting many top-notch free-agents, and their goaltending has been below expectations of late. Statistically Manny is solid, and gives them an insurance policy if Lehtonen can't cut it, or gets hurt again. If you're trying to convince your best player to reinvest in your franchise long-term, you can't be putting your backup hope onto the shoulders of a guy with almost no NHL experience (Pavelec) and a guy who's just plain awful and old (Hedberg). I think having Legace would give the team a better chance if Lehtonen goes down yet again. Macintyre and Mannino aren't even in consideration at this point either. They are both minor leaguers. If anything, Hedberg and Legace are fighting it out for a spot.

Okay, if the league is investigating the Hossa deal... then they've got to investigate this one. He's going to be 43 by the end of it.... 43? really? And making 1 million a year?... Yeah.... Here's the Yahoo article that claims it is a 12 year deal Link

Link This is a really really terrible list. Datsyuk behind Parise, Corey Parry (who is also ahead of Getzlaf??????), Jeff Carter, mike Green, and Iginla? What? Lidstrom is the 7th defensemen on the list at number #66. Are they crazy? Rafalski who tied for 3rd overall in defensive points, was 91st? Just a really poor list... and it isn't just Wings players (they are the ones I care about).

I posted a new thread about Yahoo's list... Theirs is just awful, this one seems better. the link

For me, Iverson = hate... but that doesn't mean I didn't hate most of the other leagues teams even more.

I think I speak for most Pistons fans in saying I really hated the Pistons last season.

NOTHING can beat the ducks old third jerseys... How they ever let this franchise touch the cup is beyond me...

I hate the NBA (not basketball)... but that being said, if there is any connection to be made... The wings are more like the Spurs (depth, team-first mentality, consistently near the top, whereas the Lakers are not far removed from being a low seed)... and I would say Dats is a lot like a Ginobili... willing to take punishement, is a solid scorer, great defender, classy player, etc...

If I remember correctly, the reason we resigned Hasek was because the Avs were pushing hard to sign him and we panicked. Could you imagine how the Avs would have been with an actual replacement for Roy?

I remember seeing Yzerman get that puck in the face and thought... "now that's for sure going to rally the boys to victory for Stevie's sake"....... sigh.....

Ah my apologies, I thought this was a here and now list. I'd take Thomas over many goalies for next year alone... but if I'm thinking long term I'd certainly take a younger guy like Hiller or Mason.

Not to mention that fight was basically a big brawl with bodies everywhere. It's not like Lids and him squared up and fought in the open ice... Do I think Lids is a secret fighter capable of beating guys up? No.. but to use that fight as evidence that he for sure couldnt.. a little silly.

Well, I think the drama of bringing Hasek out of retirement, and putting Cujo down in the minors, only to bring him back up when Hasek went down injured... put a damper on the whole thing, and probably made a few guys a little less than comfortable.. But Cujo was a class act through it all, and I don't think he was necessarily a bad fit for the team... It was one of many seasons where the Wings forwards were just not getting it done on the score sheet (which I think is what gave Legacy such a bad image too... tho he choked on more than one occasion). It was 03-04 after all when we lost games 6 and 7 against Calgary 1-0 (the last one in OT), something that is inexcusable from an offensive standpoint.

9. Jonas Hiller 10. Ryan Miller 11. Steve Mason 12. Ilya Bryzgalov 15. Pekka Rinne I would say all those guys are less proven than Thomas. Yeah the guy has some anger issues and messes up when he's being pushed... I think of Boston right now as how I thought of Detroit from 03-06. Great squad, tons of talent, good goaltending... but the offense needs to be there for them to advance, or they wont. The goaltending is almost a footnote.

I kind of got the feeling he waited to long to sign with a team, and all the cap cash had already been largely spent.

Cujo played very well for us, I think he got a bum rap for the team unfolding in front of him. I was focusing on skill, but in the context of wings history, yes Vernon is obviously more significant. I just don't consider him the better goaltender. The way I read the discussion, and continue to, is on the basis of on-ice production (not historical importance, since we are removing these guys from their context in time/place and placing them in an ambiguous all-time setting). Not Hasek, nor Osgood or Vernon could have saved the team Cujo was in net for.. so labeling him a "bust" is a bit much.

I've got no love for Kipper's game anymore, he's looked weak for a while.. but Thomas has played real well, and it wasn't his fault that the Bruins got knocked off, he was playing very well in the playoffs too.

It was wings all-time squad... which would include their top goalie ever... and since you can't read i'll insert exactly what I said in the original debate: