RedWings Gone Wild

It's not a bad list, I just cringe whenever I see these lists naming the best "ever" because I go into it knowing there will be an inherent NHL bias, much like a Russian list would devalue Canadian players... and I'm 100% aware of every one of Bourques accomplishments (I was living in Boston in the mid 80s and got to see him play regularly)... I still cannot fathom placing him above Lidstrom... The cups, Norris trophies (despite only being a difference of 1), conn smythe, the gold medal, and general personal observations place Lidstrom a great deal above Bourque IMO... Offensively I don't put them far apart either because Bourque had more time in the free-flying 80s and Lidstrom spent his prime in the suffocating trapping days and was still near tops of the defensive points every season.

The point I was making was two-fold. Having a CBA in place only works for the league if they can place some constraints on player salaries. In the 03-04 season the top two salaries were hold-out super-star money guys... Jagr and Forsberg at 11 million a piece... both future hall of famers, both MVP winners, both cup winners, both among league leaders in points.... This was at the time of the contracts too. 07-08? Brier, Gomez, and Vanek all made 10 million with far less in terms of credentials, name recognition, and overall significance to the league and their teams. 08-09? Still tops at at 10 million... So, yes, I do feel that you can place a great deal of blame here. Not for individual circumstances (guys bolted for Europe before the KHL was around), but for the broader implications of poor spending habits and poor planning. The difference in top notch contracts is nearly non-existent, and is being circumvented by bloated 50 year contracts on top of it.... so what was the point of a year of no hockey? Some snazzy new rules that could have been implemented without a work stoppage? Or is the NHL's focus to shell out ridiculous amounts of money to the first guys they see, and spend the little remaining cap money on bargain bin players like Eaves and Williams? The owners, and the league in general, should have been prepared with the mindset of undercutting salaries (not drastically of course) in a way to set a decent precedent for free-agent spending. The KHL would still be trumping NHL offers, but at least skilled talent won't look at a Brier and go "he makes how much? And NY won't give me 3.9 after leading their team in scoring?"

Always hate these lists because they are always very NHL-focused... may as well do away with the pretension and call it the Top 100 NHLers plus Tretiak and Kharlamov... wait... there were other Russians too? Also, tired of people rating Bourque so high. Ahead of Lidstrom? Only in points.

I fail to see how it isn't reasonable to imply that the CBA has made it difficult to keep talent from going overseas.. and Bettman, the league owner's errand boy would certainly share a large amount of the blame in propagating this system... along with the owners (who have consistently decided to overspend when unnecessary, and then tighten up the budget to let solid players leave the country when they realized they made some idiotic contract moves and are running low on cap).

Shows how much times have changed... the pre-lockout Rangers probably would have just handed Zherdev a blank check and said "go nuts." Also, pretty ironic statement from a guy with a Sweden/Wings jersey combo there. Remind me, how have the massively Canadian teams been doing lately? Oh right, they've been losing to the Euros in the cup.... We're the most European team in the league and we're consistently near the top... and I feel like I need to remind people of this all the time... Do you remember how inconsistent we were in the playoffs with our Canadians (ala Shanny and Yzerman)? Did having Kocur, McCartey, Probert, and those guys ever win us playoff rounds? Not saying it was their fault, but it's always wild to see fans of the most European team in the past 15 years complain...especially when we've been the BEST team of that time too.... Not singling you out, but it just makes no sense.

Is williams retiring a dream you have, or do u actually think a 29 year old is close to retiring?

successful offseason is a tiny bit of an understatement.

To bad those that you mentioned that weren't already retired weren't able to make it in the modern NHL.... Our toughest playoff performers have always been our skill guys... we've been more consistent the last 3 years with our "soft" squad than we ever were during the Shanahan/Yzerman years... or am I the only one that remembers all the first round upsets with all those grit guys on our 3rd and 4th lines..

Just say no to Jokinen. He makes Joe Thorton look clutch.

Agreed. I also think the NHL is going to have a tough time with the next CBA if they allow the cap to dip again.... hello another lost season.

For all you Jwilly haters.

With all the drama going on with the Hawks this offseason, one would have to think it will translate into an up-and-down season for them, full of distractions..

What Claudia does it and now Theo wants back in too? Silly.

I heard it's a 1 yr deal, anyone hear any talk on the amount?

That's what tsn said... So I doubt he would sign with us for under 4 mil. I would be willing to make some room for that kind of a salary personally, but I don't see Holland working this one out.

God it would be a dream come true if we netted a young guy with that kind of talent for a cheap price. Still, any idea what the arbitrator awarded him? Because it doesn't say what kind of number the Rangers walked away from. I imagine that Zherdev wouldn't accept a penny less than what the arbitrator deemed he was worth.

the guy is going to get some near-max offers from teams... I don't see how we could possibly have the cap to make an offer for him.. Here's a good post on the issue: http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puck_dadd...?urn=nhl,180217

You gotta go with Yzerman in terms of franchise impact... only because he was the first person to give the Wings legitimacy again, and he was also the guy people stuck around to play with. However, in terms of on-the-ice difference maker. Gotta go with Lidstrom as the pivotal guy. 89-90 (With just Yzerman) Our record is 28-38-14... (out of the playoffs) 90-91 (Federov's rookie year) Our record is 34-38-8... (low seed in the playoffs) 91-92 (Lidstrom's rookie year) Our record is 43-25-12... (#1 in conference) and we haven't had a losing record since. Perhaps we can look at Lidstrom as the last piece of the puzzle, but the team really took off his rookie year and hasn't looked back.

I believe it's called Don cherry-picking the facts.

I find this very hard to believe.. at least the 2.5 mil part of it..... IMO Hudler is light years ahead of Williams and we weren't willing to go beyond 3 mil for him, but we'd go all the way to 2.5 for J Wil? Sounds improbable to me. Not to mention, in terms of what's left on the market... there are a number of better options that can probably be had for cheaper..

Useless? not completely. But if you think he's going to net you 20-25 goals, you're mistaken (when you're in your 40s in the NHL, you're aging in Dog years now, not human years). Not to mention, if Lang or Sammy taught you anything it would be that points don't always equate to value, or to winning games. Especially if said point getter is a severe defensive liability... which is what Shanny has been the past couple of seasons. We led the league in goals last year, and were 3rd the year before...and contrary to popular opinion our roster losses this season will not equate to an offensively inept squad... we're not at a point of offensive desperation (like NJ was last year) where we need to sign a bag of bones to sit between the circles launching poor shot after poor shot... I loved Shanny in his years here, but he does not possess any of the qualities we need out of a free agent forward right now. And also, if you're suggesting he play the point... you're nuts (no offense)... Sammy was terrible there, but at least he had the speed necessary to recover... if you had Shanny on the point we'd have a record year for short handed goals conceded.. and that's not an insult to Shanny, it's just not a position he can actually play.. he just doesn't possess the speed... Why not put Holmstrom there while you're at it?

Don't waste your time being logical... you can go back to 07 or 08 on this mssg board and you'll see the same guys saying the wings are missing the kind of grit that wins cups... somehow continued success hasn't shown these people the value of a good euro... We've been the most euro heavy team in the NHL since we started poaching Russians in the early 90s... but it's only brought us to 6 Stanley cup finals and 4 cup wins... so I can empathize with the skepticism.... especially considering all those Canadian heavy dynasties we've had lately.... Goonery has certainly worked wondering for Philly.

Well, considering that what we're really missing is depth at forward (compared to our D that is).. you have to figure someone on that list is being moved to shed a little salary for a 3rd or 4th liner...

Boy... are there any x-Wings we don't have a "they will return" thread for? Bertuzzi, Williams, Lang, etc... This is getting stupid... You know Holland has the ability to sign guys who have never played here before right? It's incredibly moronic to think that people on this board would unanimously reject a 29 yr old Afinogenov, but mention some washed up late 30 early 40 x-Wing and the support starts coming out... very strange. Not saying I want Afi, just saying it's pretty silly to advocate signing yet another old goat that is going to take a roster spot away from a young and hungry kid.

I could understand rejecting Afinogenov on the basis of cost... he will probably cost way to much for us, and he doesn't fill any glaring needs... but anyone who would reject an inexpensive Afinogenov knows nothing about hockey (particularly if you are a person who would prefer signing a Bertuzzi, Peca, Shanahan, or one of the other over-the-hill wastes)... Afinogenov is 29, and has been slowed by injuries, but more than capable of recapturing his hot hands without the pressure of being a top scorer.