RedWings Gone Wild

I would like to have Sundin, but if he's asking for the kind of money he wanted last year... well.. then he can go to hell and Shanahan? no. NO NO NO. Not even if he was being paid in pesos.

If you've watched any of the international tournaments Kovalchuk has played in, he's right up in Ovechkin/Malkin territory when he's got a couple decent pieces around him and some motivation. Atlanta's been god-awful ... well.. basically since they came into the league. Personally, I place him right up at the top of the league in terms of skill and ability, but can you blame him for not investing himself into every little shift in a place like Atlanta? He's been consistently netting 40-50 goals a season for a while now without ever having anyone feeding him the puck, and without having much of a goal to work towards since they are usually out of any realistic playoff contention early on. Not to mention he's on a team with one offensive threat (unless you consider Kozlov)... It makes a big different to be an Ovechkin, Crosby, or Zetterberg who has some of the attention diverted to the Semins, Greens, Malkins, Franzens and Datsyuks on your team. That being said, that's the kind of cap hit that will make it hard for Atlanta to accomplish much in the future... Going to be hard to sign in much talent with that kind of money invested in one guy.

While we're at it, Lang, Schneider, Dandenault, Shanahan, Joey MacDonald, Devereaux, Cujo, Bertuzzi, Calder, Andres Eriksson, and Legace are still all available!!!! Make it happen Holland... Reunion tour 2009-2010!... While we're at it, bring Hatcher out of retirement. To bad we missed out on Knuble and Federov... but we can always trade for Knuble.

There are actually people out there that want Bertuzzi wearing the red and white again?... What the hell for? Don't give me that "no more sissy euros" crap anymore because we're not talking about a young/skilled ******, we're talking about an over-the-hill, more-usless-than-the-wimpiest-euro-ever, guy. The way people talk, it's as if they aren't cognizant of the passage of time... This isn't highlander, it's hockey.. No Pecas, Bertuzzis, or old men... we aren't a team trying to get over the regular season trails and into the playoffs...we're a team trying to retool to have enough gas in the tank to win a cup at the end of the day, instead of falling just short of it and clutching at our pacemakers.. and Bertuzzi will not help us win a cup...at all

If he won the cup he'd be an LA King right now

Wait, the Lions didn't make the list?

I meant that in the long term I believe he has lost his spot to Ericsson. If he is cleared to play either Lebda or Lilja will be without a spot. Period. We won't be dressing 7 defencemen and Ericsson isn't going back down. To F. Michael... No way would I recommend making Meech a regular.. Never claimed to, and never claimed he was better than Lilja or Lebda.. just cheaper/young/ and more versatile.. So, if we're getting rid of pieces to aquire new ones, there's really no point in getting rid of him because you won't get a decent pick for him, and you won't free up much cap space either. Better to use him as a here and there callup when a forward or Dman is out.

I wasn't saying Kronwall and Stuart played well, just saying their position as our #2 pairing is pretty much set. The point is expendibility, which is synonymous with Ledba for sure, and Lilja wouldn't have made much of a difference. He basically lost his spot to Ericsson, who is better and younger. Yeah, I thought Kronwall and Stuart both played pretty poorly at times, but they are not in danger of losing their playing time to Lilja, Lebda, or Meech... that's for sure. I could see Ericsson sliding up a spot if they continue to struggle, but that's about it. So, at least one D-man should go... Meech is versatile (can double as a forward if needed) and young/cheap. That leaves Lilja or Lebda.. and Lilja makes more $$. Bye bye to one of them and there is at least enough cap for a half decent 4th liner who drops the gloves on occasion.

Please, no Peca.. We already have Draper and Maltby... Peca would be redundant. If he was 5 years younger....maybe Last thing we need is to get OLDER...

A lot of the guys going are no brainers (Lang, Schneider, to old)... but I really do question Koivu.. If a classy guy like Koivu can't at least get a decent offer from a team he's been with for so long (and played very well for might I add)... well, the NHL is becoming more and more like the NBA with each passing day.

I really don't understand the thought process behind being unwilling to pay 2.5 million for one of the only guys we have not looking 30 or 40 right in the face... You want to add grit to the lineup? Fine by me, but do so by cutting ties with older players long past their prime... not with young guys who put up decent offense (offense, btw, is what we have been losing this offseason, not defense)... Who do you really think is lining up for 2.5 a year with any kind of tallent anyways? Signing Hudler doesn't hurt us in the Cap department, because we have numerous expendible pieces that can (NAY, should) be traded away. Lilja and/or Lebda are both pretty useless, and our top 5 is set in stone with Lids, Rafalski, Ericsson, Kronwall, and Stuart. Maltby has been worthless for the past 4 seasons (in that time he hasn't scored more than 11 points, and has been in the negative +/- every season). I'd hate to get rid of guys like Draper or Maltby due to their long tenure with the franchise, but as long as we're being cold and pragmatic in dialogue when deciding what players are unecessary, we must be honest in saying that, for the price, Hudler is far more valuable than Draper, Maltby, Lebda, Lilja, and probably even Homer (when you begin factoring in the injuries and wear and tear on his body, he has been looking older out there than Cheli). If we want to talk about our unsigned boys, then Hudler is again more important than Leino (youtube hit count aside) and/or Samuelsson.. Yes, I'm aware of the difference in cash and cap we're discussing here, and Hudler will cost more to keep than Lilja/Lebda combined, but if Draft Picks or a few Grit guys are your objective, better to get them through trading away some of the fat to teams that either need the depth or some leadership from veteran cup winners, than getting rid of one of the sole young guys we actually have..

Gaborik is certainly an overpayment, but if he can keep off the IR it could pay off for them. It's a gamble, and I'm okay with that in sports.. I'd say the bigger overpayment is Cammalleri, because he is wildly inconsistent, and is a liability outside of the offensive end. Considering his injury history, Steve Sullivan was a bit of a gamble too. I'm never for comparing anyone to Lids (because he is without a doubt in my mind the top defenseman of the past 20 years), but in defence of Bouwmeester's +/-, you gotta factor in that he's been playing for Florida all these years, which is very different than playing for... say... Detroit

Heck, the Hawks spent a ton of cash, but they really aren't that much better for this coming season. They lost Khabi and are left with the super streaky Huet.. They replaced Havlat with Hossa (different styles, but they cancel each other out in my book, though Hossa is more likely to remain healthy).. They replaced Pahlsson with Madden. Kopecky is a depth guy/fourth liner.. and they've handicapped themselves come next season when they have to start resigning their youngins.. These signings aren't as big a deal as everyone is making them out to be.

Ok this is a stupid argument for 2 reasons. 1. Zetterberg isn't dumb enough to go in on a breakaway with his head down. Zett knows how the control the puck without looking at it. These aren't minor leaguers. 2. Dom HAS attempted this many many times against players with their heads up, so that is a pretty stupid argument to insinuate he went into it because Gaborik had his head down. The key to the move is to get to the puck before the player has the chance to do anything substantial with it. Gaborik's head can be up his ass or looking directly into the whites of Dom's eyes, it makes no difference to the end result..which is puck=stopped. This is why teams have scouting reports, so that players can be warned when a goalie likes to come out on breakaways. It shouldn't have been a penalty, but since one was awarded it is curious that it wasn't a penalty shot. Seems that the ref just awarded a penalty because he wet himself and figured something had to be done.

If Gaborik doesn't know that Hasek leaves the net to stop breakaways before the player can get full control, then he is about the only person in the league. How many times has Hasek done this? I'm sorry, but this is hardly a move that should take a player by surprise. Gaborik's hockey senses just weren't working right. I'm sure had Hasek had the foresight to see the result of his challenging the breakaway he wouldn't have done it, but the fact is that Gaborik should be aware of that aspect of Hasek's game.

Beezer, Barrasso, and Richter all kinda stunk, but Richter most of all. Only reason anyone ever talks about him is because he is the only half-decent American born goalie in some time. However, Richter was NEVER NY's mvp, I'd say Leech took that honor most of the time.

I'd like to think that's true, but I somehow highly doubt it. The olympic symbol certainly counts as a sports symbol, I really doubt the winged wheel would be anywhere near that. Maybe the most recognizable hockey symbol.

I hate the holiday underachieving. If we go anything other than 82-0 it's time to rebuild!

Who was it that said Zetterberg and Datsyuk are extremely streaky? Oh, right, me! This is exactly what I expected.

to add to eva unit... Jagr is near the end of his career... i'd hardly call him "in the making"

Well, for a few years now our regular season success has been heavily pegged as being a result of weak division rivals (with the sole exception of Nashville). However, this year with 20+ games in the bag, every team in our division is a few games above .500, and most of our losses have come from division foes. In fact, minus our loss to Anahiem, every loss has been within the division. Is it too soon to say the Central division is the deepest in the NHL? I have my opinion (as always), but I'm curious to see what others think about the Central division this year. After all, prior to the season most were predicting the Central division to be a cake walk for the Wings. A side question: Could a stronger division finally be the thing that gets the Wings battle tested and driven in time for playoff successes?

It's babcock's plan to get us league-wide respect. Simply beat everyone in the league and lose to everyone in our division. The cup is ours!

Right, Sawchuk and Plante played with some amazing teams, but few can define themselves without a ton of surrounding tallent, and I think Roy has always had a plethora of it... that's why I'm a Hasek advocate.. his accomplishments in the hockey hell of Buffalo speaks for itself (as does his amazing Olympic play)... and it was all on teams that had consistently less tallent and skill than their opponents.. However, I would argue that Broduer has been carrying the load the past few seasons (not that he has cups to show for it, but I'm impressed that the Devils are still making the playoffs). EDIT: I'm not trying to show my bias to Roy, honestly. I think he's top 10 all-time easily. I think of the modern trio I mentioned before it's 1. Hasek 2. Roy and 3. Broduer. One thing Broduer managed, that Roy never managed, and deserves consideration, is Olympic gold (canada's first in like 50 years). Certainly that should be mulled over. Tho, Hasek's gold is again much more impressive. Edit #45: This is the last edit I swear... everything hockey experts say this day and age (i.e. the past 15 years or so) has to be taken with a grain of salt because it's ALL publicity and marketing...we're a desperate league. They go with the trendy choice for #1 (as long as it's somewhat justifiable). When Broduer retires (with the wins record) you'll see a good number of hockey experts proclaiming him #1 all time, not because he is, but because it'll uncork the nostalgia in NJ and get asses in the seats.

Lets see: 1985-86 : Chelios, Mats Naslund (110 point season), Guy Carbonneau, Bob Gainey (winner of 4 straight selke trophies), Larry Robinson, claude Lemieux, Svoboda, Ryan Walter, .... a good team, especially defensively. 1992-93 (the better of the two teams): Guy Carbonneau, Mike Keane, Eric Desjardins, Mathieu Schneider, Denis Savard (hall of famer), Kirk Muller, John LeClair, Brisebois, Damphousse, Brian Bellows.... There are some great defensemen and defensively minded players on those two teams, and if we're going to dock Broduer points for having great defensemen around him, then the same needs to be done for Roy. I'm to lazy to look at one of the 100 threads on this, but u better not say that kind of stuff and then be one of those guys advocating Osgood in the hall of fame . Also, Hasek > Roy and Broduer!! They'd both be still aiming for their 100th win if they played their career in Buffalo

The thread said Europeans in the NHL... otherwise Igor should be the least of your concerns, there were many soviets that were as good as if not better than Larionov (Maltsev, Kharlamov, Tretiak, Petrov, Mikhailov, Makarov, ect ect ect).