RedWings Gone Wild

Roy is top 5 in terms of modern goalies.. comparing Dryden, Sawchuck, and those kinds of guys to modern goalies is apples and oranges since the game has changed so much since those players have played. Likewise if we want to compare Howe to Gretzky and such, it's again difficult. Could Gretzky have tallied all those points in a day when he would have to fight and play against teams with a defence? Duno. I can only confidently compare players to their contemporaries. Now, if we are to relegate our discussion to amount of influence, then older players deserve the majority of the credit because it is all a snowball effect (Roy couldn't be there to revolutionize goaltending if your Sawchucks hadn't revolutionized it first..ect). However, I'd certainly say Roy has greatly benefited from the teams he played on...I've always felt the Conn Smyth is more a popularity contest and marketing skeem rather than a real trophy. I almost always disagree with who they hand it to. I would have liked to see how Roy would have done in a Buffalo jersey, and since that was never the case we'll have to use our guts to solve this one. Yeah, Roy was a ******, but he is top 3 of our generation, with Hasek and Broduer obviously rounding out the modern games trio of greats between the pipes. For someone to put one of the three above the others is an act of preference, because I don't think you can accurately say who's the best. All three have benefited from good teams, though I'd say that what seperates Broduer and Hasek from Roy (other than Roy's occasional 7 to 9-goal slipup) is that Roy has never taken a bad team and made it competative.. I think you can make the claim that Broduer and Hasek have both managed this.

Eh, sorry didn't see that.. You hear about it in baseball a lot in regards to the potential need for some sort of a salary cap, as well as drug testing, but that's not really in relation to how the game is played. With the NBA, in the 2001-02 season they changed the time to get past midcourt from 10 to 8 seconds... they made the defensive 3-secnd rule.. and a few other defensive rules. This was all designed to increase the flow of the game (like the NHL is doing). Recent NBA changes have mostly been dealing with their playoff and seeding formats (from a 5 game first round to a 7... and not seeding division winners as automatic 1-2-3.) However, that shows that there is still debate within basketball, and it has been rising in global popularity. The NFL has also changed some rules recently.. some kinds of blocking is legal now when it wasn't before, and now rushing defenders have to try and avoid low hits (or it's a penalty).. There are a bunch of other ones too. Anyways, a good league is continually trying to find ways to improve the game. I don't think the NHL's problems are because of their efforts to better play (after all this is a fairly recent trend and hockey has been going downhill in popularity for a while).

He's probably gone abroad to watch team canada play before . My top ten: And since u specified NHL, i'll keep a lot of guys who spent their glory years outside the NHL off my list (Fetisov, Larionov, etc..). 1. Hasek (flame me! pls!) 2. Peter Stastny 3. Lidstrom 4. Jagr 5. Kurri 6. Mogilny 7. Bure 8.Sergei Fedorov 9.Mats Sundin 10.Selanne Clear the way for Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Ovechkin, and Malkin!

If Bourque was a swede he wouldn't have made all those all-star games

Yea, so much for NY's big offense... I don't see that lasting all season tho. That being said, Ovechkin gets about 2.00 of his teams 2.33.

Each of those leagues has 10 times the off-court drama as the NHL. Just look at the NFL this year: Packman Jones, Vick!!!!!, Ricky WIlliams (drugs, comeback, injured), Sean Taylor, ect ect... Then there's the NBA: Ref scandles, Artest beating a woman, Kobe... MLB: Do I need to even go beyond Barry Bonds? The problem is that the only time the NHL does something news worthy it is negative (or it's a behind the head ovechkin goal). Well, in all honestly, people like to watch players they hate in the hopes that they'll see said player crash and burn... contovery polarizes people, therefore making them more likely to pick sides, thereby causing them to invest in one of these sides and actually pay attention to it. If anything Hockey needs more colorful characters to draw attention to the sport (alas, if only we could cross breed Crosby and Avery...it'd also be nice is Burtuzzi didn't suck now).

I got the perfect trade for Sundin. Let's give them Bowman in a straight up trade.. they've been dieing to get him.

Ovechkin, Heatly, Malkin, Broduer (tho only cuz he's going to take all of Roy's records), Richards, Thomas Kaberle, Jagr, and Kovalchuk. Modano used to be up there, but he's bored me in recent years.

The whole flyers thing is getting a little rediculous... as if the NHL isn't enough of a joke already the flyers somehow manage to throw a dirty hit every couple of games. I can't say whether or not it's their team phylosophy, or their coach's, but either way it's long past time for some disciplinary action. Regardless of whether or not it's being encouraged within the flyers organization, they deserve it purely on the basis that they aren't controling the animals they have on skates. Food for thought: If a team wins a stanely cup, and nobody cares enough to watch it, did the team really win?

Well, Lids will have the most cups for sure, but one could make an argument for Hasek.. In personal awards, no other goalie in our generation can match Hasek. That being said (and tho I'm replying to ur post, i'm not replying to u with this comment), I don't consider points as a supreme indicator with defencemen... the key to a defenceman is.. DEFENCE. Offensively, Bourque is better than Lidstrom, but Lidstrom is better on defence hands down... and while scoring has always been essential for anyone in the "greatest" defenceman debate, I think in the case of close debates the better defensive player should get the nod, and I think that's without a doubt Lidstrom. Also, the HOF has always been very bias to players in the NHL... At this point there are only 3 soviet players in the HOF (Fetisov, Kharlamov, and Tretiak)...and considering their dominance on the international stage, they are terribly underrepresented. Who knows, if Fetisov never went to the NHL he probably wouldn't even be in.

I'm sorry, I don't think Bourque is ahead of Lidstrom. They have the same number of Norris trophies, and Lidstrom has played 7 less seasons than Bourque. Lidstrom also has the Conn Smyth and 3 cups (without having to switch teams for them). That being said, I think Bourque is top 10 all-time, perhaps even top 5.. but I think you can easily make a case to say Lidstrom is the better. I think you can make a case for Fetisov being up there too (often called the Russian Orr). However, the article wasn't stating that Lidstrom is #2 all time as of yet, it did say "when all is said and done" that it wouldn't be a stretch for him to be behind Orr. As for best Euro.. I'm not sure, Kurri, Jagr, Hasek... Loads of good Europeans. And as previously mentioned, if the Russians had been playing in the league all this time they'd get more credit. Imagine Larionov if he came into this league when he was young.

Either way, his talents are being wasted. Which is a shame. Realistically, I think Ovechkin is a better hockey player than Crosby, and if they both had a similar supporting cast I bet this would be apparent. I cringe to see Washington scores every day because I know they will score around 1-2 goals, and Ovechkin will usually be the only one scoring (I also feel bad for Kolzig who I think is a fantastically underrated goalie).

I've been hoping that the blackhawks could become a contender for a long time now. Their fans deserve it, and it's beneficial to the sport of hockey. However, they aren't quite there yet. They are becoming one of the top teams in the division, and with a young core they stand to get better and better. They need to work on their consistency before we can call them a contender though. The Hawks are still dropping games to teams they should be beating every now and then.

Yea, it was a beautiful goal. We've had a couple nice ones so far this season, Hudler had a great one earlier in the season too. If someone has a link to a video with the replays and stuff I'd like to see it with slow motion and such.

Why is slap shot great? because it's one of the few sports movies not to over dramatize sports. yea, sports can be exciting, and i've had some amazing moments in my life because of them: like being part of world cup and european championship celebrations.. there is nothing like it in the world, and I remember all the wings victories and going to the parades.... but I hate the sappy "oh look how much we've overcome as a team.. and now we won the championship against our rivals" motif (ala' the mighty ducks crap). Slap Shot just has the greatest satirical championship win in the history of film with the stripping.

Good lord, do your knuckles bleed when you walk? I think your only saying debating is useless because you have nothing to say. I'm not saying that you can't stick in a beer league goalie in net and have him rack up a .940 in the NHL (when the f did i say u could?), but he also won't rack up a 2.00 GAA either... So how isn't GAA a good indicator? Personally, I consider SV% a better way of determining who the better goalie is, but it's very much related to the team's system and overall style too. It plays a major role.

Vernon owned Roy... Ozzie.. well Ozzie didn't. Judging by how Hasek handles fights in roller hockey leagues, it's probably better he didn't get his hands on Roy or we'd have another black eye for the NHL (and we're already out of eyes).

Which is why the Russian's were still beating NHL all-star teams, and star studded Canadian rosters in World Cups and World Championships... Ironic that you should mention cheating, considering Canada's victory against the Russians in the 1972 summit series. To quote Canada's assistant coach John Ferguson: " I called Clarke over to the bench, looked over at Kharlamov and said, 'I think he needs a tap on the ankle.'" Also, uh, last olympics team canada was nothing but pros.. and they finished in 7th place.. the US in 8th... All 6 teams ahead of them were European, and Russia got a medal. Riiiiight.

What do they care? Most of their assets aren't in this country anyway (been to Dubai lately?.. Haliburton has). Anywho, no politics! This is hockey damnit!

I'm not really sure what ur point is... yea, Cujo played well and our offence sucked so we lost the series... but that doesn't change the fact that over the course of an 82 game season goalies who's team limits an opposing offence to perimiter low-risk shots (yet a plethora of them) will have a higher save percentage than your Osgoods and Haseks who only face the occasional shot that often times requires them to come up big... How can u not see that a team's style of play can highten a goalie's save percentage? Save percentage isn't all on the goalie.. Lets use a hypothetical....Goalie A faces on average 40 perimiter shots a night... Goalie B faces 10 shots a night, all breakaways... Goalie A can let in 4 goals and be at .900... Goalie B has to stop 9 of 10 breakaways to be at the same %..... Yea, it's an extreme example, but look at Grant Fuhr's stats and you'll realize why he rarely hit .900 SV%

I swear, every time Babs breaks up Zett, Homer, and Datsyuk they all simultaniously forget how to score. Leave em together, just throw around a little extra ice time to the other lines and see which one makes the most of it.

Not true. SV% is a result of the system as well. Some teams don't care how many shots on goal the opposition gets as long as they are from low percentage angles or from far out... therefore inflating a goalies %. Our system provides the goalie with little work, but usually when our D slips up it's a big slipup, since we're puck control. Both GAA and SV% are good indicators of a goalie's performance, however both greatly relate to the team and its system. Even if you were right, it hardly changes my point that if we're considering Osgood a great playoff performer (in the years specified), then how are we considering Dom weak in the playoffs last year when statistically Dom had a much better GAA, nearly the same Save% (.01 and .02 % off 2 of the years, and .10+ above), I think we had a better teams back then too, and...tho this is hardly important (sarcasm) we ultimately got furthur into the playoffs last year than in the other years mentioned... It was also the first time since 2002 (another Dom year) where we didn't play below expectations. Illustrates the existing bias. Say what you want about Dom's performance thus far, but outlandish statements of him performing poorly in the playoffs are unfounded...especially if using Osgood as some kind of example of playoff stability.

I'm sorry, how can you simultaniously imply Osgood was the best postseason Wing in 99,00, and 01...yet try to discredit Dom's previous postseason? Since we're going off statistics, Dom's 1.79 GAA is better than anything Osgood has EVER put up in the postseason...it's also hardly Dom's best. And Dom's .923 SV% last playoffs was right there with Osgood's save percentages in the seasons Osgood was in your words "the Wings' best player." Whatever pal. This anti-dom bandwagon is amusing.

Howe did it so that he could be the only person to play a professional sport in 6 different decades. The promotional aspect was the IHL's motivation, not Howe's.

I see nothing wrong with your statement. I just don't much see the point of everyone trying to torch the man alive. As if he's done some great injustice to the team by being traded to the Wings and then wanting to stick with us.