sticknmove

"at this point i don't really care if they win them just as long as they stand up for eachother" probably the best statement made on this board in a month. "Yeah, i guess i really don't see Kopecky being a fighting goon because he doesn't strike me as that" haha ya, because the NHL is as simple as black and white, fighting goon or not fighting goon. You should rephrase your statement to I guess I really dont see Kopecky as a HW enforcer type because as his career so far, before Detroit, clearly illustrates fighting is not a big part of his game, yet he will probably drop every once and a while. And one more thing, a funny, no, scary, thought came to mind. That being Drake, in a "i forgot what team I play for now" runs a goalie, and thus inciting a small line brawl and furthermore giving them reasons to run and cheapshot us. Hmm would not be good, I mean all that insane playoff grit everyone hangs on here would have to come out at once if a scenario like this occured or things would get ugly.

"No grit? What about these playoffs where they were supposed to get destroyed physically by Calgary and San Jose" You are wrong again, Calgary was supposed to beat us because our recent track record in the playoffs, that being a elite reg season team who somehow falls apart in the playoffs. And san jose some thought were favored to beat us because some thought they were just better. I watched every second of airtime the wings got throughout the playoffs and yes a few times it was mentioned the wings may be soft but this whole argument some of you make that "we are gritty, look at how we were supposed to get deystroyed in the playoffs" is humorous at best, we were picked to lose by so many b/c the past years playoff performances. "Yet they still won the Cup with very little fighting! Stop the presses! I guess you can win a Cup wtihout people "dropping the mitts" often then! FYI when you want to comment on a previous post, click the quote button and type under the quote, makes it a bit easier to read the flow" Thanks for the grammar lesson I need them, and I will go ahead and repay you through a few lessons in hockey, which i am sorry to say, you obviously need. You sit here and argue that I am wrong saying you need guys willing to fight in order to win a cup. You back that up with an example of the Wings in 02 who had 21 FM's which you claim is "barely" any fights. Do you realize 21 FM's is MORE fm's then detroit had over the past 2 seasons combined right? So what are you saying really? That 21 FM's a year is not much? I agree with you if that is what you are saying, but for someone like yourself who thinks the team has the all the toughness it needs (18 FM in 2 FULL seasons) and then claiming 21 FM in a year is "barely any" kind of makes you look silly, dont ya think. Oh and quote this way, sorry.

"I ask you what Norton did that impressed you so much to get a roster spot?" The same thing that Kopecky did or Meech at that, did, oh and there was the whole fact that he was willing and able to handle himself against HW's, something this team has sorely missed since McCartys hayday. And I do not know if you realize something, YOU DONT HAVE TO DRESS HIM EVERY NIGHT. haha carolina, cute. **Totals are Regular season and Playoffs ONLY** 07-Ducks (75 FM's) v. Senators (28 FM's) 06-Carolina (19 FM's) v. Edmonton (31 FM's) 04-Tampa Bay (51 FM's) v. Calgary (85 FM's) 03-New Jersey (44 FM's) v. Ducks (33 FM's) *02-Red Wings (21 FM's) v. Carolina (33 FM's) 01-Colorado (50 FM's) v. New Jersey (56 FM's) 00-New Jersey (47 FM's) v. Dallas (37 FM's) 99-Dallas (35 FM) v. Buffalo (52 FM's) *98-Red Wings (33 FM's) v. Washington (32 FM's) *97-Red Wings (62 FM's) v. Philly (82 FM's) *****Above are the regular season and playoff fighting majors for the teams in stanley cup finals. The total Detroit Red Wing FM count FOR 2005-2006 (6 FM) AND 2006-2007 (12 FM) IS 18 TOTAL FIGHTING MAJORS. that is less then the smallest number above (06 Carolia).**** Yes Carolina was not a team with a particularly large ammount of FM however they are the one exception, and even they had more fm's then we did the last 2 seasons combined. BUT I WILL give you that 1 team, now here are the numbers, would you like me to continue on to the mid/early 90's totals? i think not "2002 the Wings won a Cup and barely dropped the mitts" True, they barely did, now YOU ARE STARTING TO SEE MY FRIEND, you said it not me 21 times is 'barely'. Thank you

I guess, I mean Norton did fine fighting. The european sect of this forum allways rants and raves about how bad of a fighter he was 1-1 with 2 draws. One of those draws was against Roy whom in my opinion he won, but listed as a draw. He also was fighting legitimate HW's, some of the toughest HW's in the NHL. Ivanis, Peters, Roy, and Shane O'Brien. 3 of those 4 were in the top ten on the year in FM's. so i think he did quite fine addressing our toughness, he was .500 against the leagues best, while the year prior these guys would have eaten anyone in our lineup. No one was running our guys, or taking liberties. And some idiots claim that he didnt stick up for teamates, and that goes to show their hockey ignorance. His 1st shift he would pick their toughest guy and fight him, thus setting a tone. but whatever, f*ck Norton, what a pile. BUT MEECH BABY!!!!!!!!! that is our future, thank ya jesus. Why should we sign anyone else, i mean we are set , Meech MIGHT (i mean he's young so lets give him time) develop over time, and that for me IS ENOUGH to coddle him the entire way to superstardom

"at the beginning of the year, many of the pro-fighting crowd people on here preferred the idea of Norton to the idea of Hudler or Kopecky." i would still take Norton over Kopecky. I dont get the arguments like "how did philly finish", bad, thats how they finished, they were horrible. What point does that make? I have allready put up the numbers proven that to win a stanley cup you have to have guys willing to drop the mitts. NO A FACEWASH AFTER THE WHISTLE IS NOT STICKING UP FOR YOUR TEAMATES, so stop saying Dats and Z get into scrums sticking up for ppl, they dont.

Yes I totally understand and agree with you. I guess the main thing I am trying to get at is the difference in how Meech and Norton are looked at around here. Thats all, I mean Meech is going to be at best average, maybe end up better then Norton however last year Norton got killed by forum members when Meech went unscathed.

Bahaha this is good. Meech is terrible, Brad Norton was as good as Meech skill wise and he fought yet 90% of the ppl on this forum BASHED Norton relentlessly, yet praise Meech, compare him to Lebda, etc. I am not syaing we should have neccessarily kept Norton or even brought him up from GR after he was sent down, I am saying that this Meech signing shows how bad the anti fighting attitude is here in Detroit. Argue if you want that they are both worthless and I may agree with you, however to see the red carpet rolled out for this waste (Meech) while another player who was just as much of a waste according to many here (yet unarguably had a dimension to his game Meech did not) Brad Norton was despised. Derek Meech: 2006-07 Totals 4 Games Played 0 Points +1 4 PIM Brad Norton: 2006-2007 Totals 6 Games Played 1 Point +2 20 PIM *AS you can clearly see they are nearly identical in stats, do not try to argue PIM either it is a non point. Not a single PIM of Brad Nortons resulted in the Red Wings being a man down, he took someone with him every time. ONE MORE time though, I want to reiterate that I am not saying Norton was better then Meech, I am saying that at least they were equal in what they could bring. I AM however pointing out the difference each one of them as a player was treated by so many of you.

Corson won, but Lilja did just fine. In no means is Lilja a great enforcer but he isnt terrible either, I hope he drops the mitts a few more times. I am not asking for 10-12 tilts but I think he could handle 4-6 throughout the year and be just fine, hell maybe even pick up a W along the way

MUST WATCH!!!! AMAZINGGGGGGG!

"I am growing tired of the argument that because the wings do not have a fighter/enforcer they do not stand up for each other. Last year Z got in some scraps and scrums (not fights), Homer jumped in to get guys off of Z's back" Haha you cannot be serious. Not only do the wings not have a fighter/enforcer but they are arguably the softest NHL team ever assembled. "Z got in some scraps and scrums", you obviously watch a lot of hockey, I mean I am sitting here speechless at this comment and am just going to have to leave it like that. Now as for the video, all i can say is f*ing classic, that is real NHL puck. Not the watered down United States "i have been watching the wings for 2 years now and am an expert on all that is holy regarding hockey and its historical fabric" or the euro style proponents who believe that the shootout was gods gift to the nhl, but real NHL hockey. Sh*t, a lot of the ppl here need to take a lil listen to Don Cherry, I hear him getting bashed around here a ton and find it comical being as thoughthe guy has forgotten more about hockey then any of us could ever wish to know.

This Bell character has personality, I WANT HIM. I mean, obviously a social guy who is willing to take risks! We need a grinder with a heart the size of Montana and I think we have found him. Ladies and Gentlemen your newest Detroit Red Wing, Mark "i was just a little thirsty" Bell. YAYAYA!

UMM i think you guys are forgetting the obvious... a man I LIKE TO CALL MR. MARK HOWE!!!!

SWEET JESUS I CAN FINALLY SLEEP. wow, was getting worried we were going to lose this kid, derek "cool hands" meech is what he is referred as in my house. THIS KID HAS SUPERSTAR written all over him!

this guys obviously got heart, I SAY SIGN HIM, he'll have just enough time to get playoff ready. PULL THE TRIGGER KENNY!

"He made one mistake in the entire playoffs, so piss off." For once I completely agree with you Crymson, Lilja was steller in the playoffs and granted the turnover was bad that game should have never even made it to overtime, we lost that game 10 minutes before Lilja made his mistake.

well a bunch of sites are reporting Markov signed withthe Isles. Not on TSN yet but looks as legit as they come. sh*t i kinda had a small ray of hope he would come back

"Yet fringe players like Asham and Cam Janssen are exciting" Yes they are, I am curious to how much hockey you watch.

Yes I recently moved and due to living arraingments have to part with some stuff I just dont have room for, I dont like it but I have no choice. Anyways I have a away (white) Detroit Red Wings Steve Yzerman jersey, autographed on the 1 (of the 19) in silver/metallic paint pen. It is in a real neat, heaviy duty black frame with black background and at the bottom a gold plaque with Steve Yzerman "The Captain" on it with the years he won the cup with the Wings and the year he won the Conn Smythe. It is a CCM jersey, not the reebok version and it comes with a small thumbsize Steve Yzerman Authentic hologram sticker under the signature and another authetication certificate on the back of the frame. Its really a great looking piece, and any fan would love it. If you are interested PM me and we can either exchange phone numbers or emails or both so we can discuss price, delivery/pickup etc. Anyways thats about it, and I hope to hear from someone who is interested. I cant really keep it and instead of ebay'ing it I chose to post here with the hopes a true red wing fan would get his hands on it and not some broker. Last, my email is mattdelias@yahoo.com if you would rather email me opposed to pm'ing me. Cheers

Haha, nahh a tad low. But kudos for being the first to make an offer

As stated above fighting mine as well be banned if you are solely watching the Red Wings. Haha, I mean if you only watch the wings then you honestly would not be able to tell the difference wether or not fighting in the NHL is banned.

"I'll be impressed if you've managed to survey the majority of Wings fans." Crymson Crymson Cryson, "A poll conducted by The Hockey News supported Deford’s statement with 75% of those surveyed saying they liked or loved fighting in the NHL (Miller and Heika). In an article from Marketing, Wayne Karl asks if the NHL wants these types of fans “associated with this product, if these people are conducive to a long-term marketable demographic†(9). This concern has yet to present itself to the league since the NHL has managed to remain marketable throughout its 89-year history and is currently generating more revenue than ever before. Multiple studies have shown that attendance, a key source of revenue for a hockey team has a positive correlation with fighting in games." you can now remove the foot from your mouth. moreover i found some nice stuff on Asham: 2006-07 NYI 80 games played 11 goals 12 assists 23 point +3 63 PM Now I am not going to take the time but you should look up Drakes, Maltbys, Asham blows them out of the water, and while Hudler and Franzen have noticebly better +/- the point production is very similar. Yes Asham would have been a PERFECT fit here there is no argument, would have cost aprox $150,000.00 more then Drake which is not much in comparison of the two's production. Also remember ASham put up these numbers with the Islanders who were not terrible but not close to the talent and skill the Red Wings have so one can only imagine what ASham could have done here. I understand he is signed and its not going to happen but I figure I mine as well toss it out there in an effort to open the eyes of some here. Will it work? probably not, but its worth a try

"WTF? who is Asham, why are you guys creaming over this talentless hack, im sure he can kill penalties like maltby, score goals(man the point-not all-star dont get me wrong) like samueslson, ya i agree with getting tougher, spending money on a guy that can only fight and play "physical" is not going to help, everybody is enamered with anaheim and there big physical guys, yes they are all scorers as well not just physical, that is why they won the stanley cup. The Wings have been incredible for almost 20 years now, i am pretty sure Holland can figure out what to do, and that is not spending money on hacks that can fight, you can get that by bringing up some goone from Grand Rapids if you want somebody to fight so bad. Plus even if the Wings have a few lean years, let the team pile up some draft picks for the best drafting staff in the NHL Quoted for truth." HAHAHA more like quoted from someone who is more or less not very informed on NHL players outside the Red Wings franchise. Second Asham took the paycut not because he is a cancer or Avery clone, he is actually drawn nothing but praise from past coaches and teamates, however he took the paycut to go to a contender which the Islanders are not (if you look at them they are arguably setting up to be the worst in the NHL). And the comment of piling up draft picks is ok, if you consider the average turnaround from draft to day to actual NHL readiness is 5-7 years, and thats for the ones who even see the league which the majority do not.

Asham would have been perfect, Kopecky is unproven i understand he was injured but was pretty much invisible until then. drake is ok, but for a little more we could have had asham, and a little more being aprox 2 hundred thousand. i think any GM would laugh at you for thinking signing drake instead of asham (even with the slight increase in ashams deal) was the better move. i love the accusations some make around here along the lines of "blah blah blah some ppl want a fighter more the a sailor and a bj, blah blah blah, the wings dont need a fighter and all you who think they do are morons, blah blah blah" well i think the ppl who dont realize that we despretly need some grit and PROTECION for our skill guys are morons who are quite clueless into what is needed to build a stanley cup winning team. now feel free to use your baseless insults to try to divert the attention from my point to your ranting attacks. cheers!

"urgh...he's a horrible player" What exactly are you basing this off? I mean i know he is no Gretzky but surely you would agree he is no 'worse' then fleet footed Maltby or Drake. he would of been an INSTANT fan favorite here, but most likely, as mentioned above, due to him dropping the gloves and gritty style of play he was most likely absent from ken hollands list of possibilities.

Yzerman aint going nowhere, like someone else said toronto sports journalists basically have resorted to making up rumors and speculation with the pipe dream of them coming true.