sticknmove

***BOOGARD HIGHLIGHTS*** GOD WHAT I WOULDNT GIVE TO HAVE HIM, you think his team appreciates him or do you think he is a waste of a roster spot? its not secret either he has been working hard during both the regular and off season on footspeed, hands, etc. so he will only get better, jeez. haha i bet all the anti enforcers here had a freaking heart attack watching that highlight video, haha i mean only watching the wings you may forget that there are different aspects to nhl games. ahh i f*cking love em, but we need a legitimate tough guy "Detroit is successful but do not carry a legit enforcer like Andrew Peters" well they werent as successful as Ottowa or Anaheim and they both carried legit enforcers

1. Gordie Howe 2. Bobby Orr 3. Steve Yzerman 4. Wayne Gretzky 5. Rocket Richard

Tomas Kopecky #28: 2006-07 DET 26 games played 1 goal 0 assists 1 pt -2 22 PIM Brad Norton #16: 2006-2007 DET 6 games played 0 goals 1 assis 1 pt +2 20 PIM *Haha funny when comparing, you would think Kopecky would catch as much scrutiny as Norton but nah, shows that anti fighter bias, haha i playing

*I posted this in another thread but I am putting it here to for nothing more then the fact i kind of found it funny, especially after so many ppl on this board did nothing but rag on the guy* dont rip my head off, i am not saying "aww i am pissed, we should of kept this guy", i amnot saying that at all i am just saying you would have thought he was 0-5-0 if all you did were listen to posts about him and didnt actually watch the tilts. BRAD NORTONS FIGHT CARD/RECORD WITH THE DETROIT RED WINGS: Sep 22, 2006 1pd 10:04 @ DET TAM Nick Tarnasky -win Norton Oct 07, 2006 1pd 04:26 DET @ PIT Andre Roy -Voted winner: Draw (40.6%) Oct 13, 2006 1pd 14:10 @ DET BUF Andrew Peters -Voted winner: Andrew Peters (62.0%) Oct 16, 2006 1pd 02:07 DET @ LOS Raitis Ivanans -Voted winner: Brad Norton (47.8%) Oct 18, 2006 3pd 03:18 DET @ ANA Shane O'Brien -Voted winner: Draw (67.4%) So in his 5 fights when wih the Wings (1 Preseason and 4 regular season) he was 2-1-2. No not the heavyweight champ but given the names on his fight card this was far from a bad showing.

First of all some of you have a weird fixation with beating chests, its kinda weird. Second I know he was not a franchise player but he did what he was brought in to do. you guys nut your pants over guys like hudler and kindl (who has yet to play in a NHL reg. game, and only a handful of AHL games) and you sh*t on guys like norton. get over it. heres some info for ya to, research your statements before you make them bud: Sep 22, 2006 1pd 10:04 @ DET TAM Nick Tarnasky -win Norton Oct 07, 2006 1pd 04:26 DET @ PIT Andre Roy -Voted winner: Draw (40.6%) Oct 13, 2006 1pd 14:10 @ DET BUF Andrew Peters -Voted winner: Andrew Peters (62.0%) Oct 16, 2006 1pd 02:07 DET @ LOS Raitis Ivanans -Voted winner: Brad Norton (47.8%) Oct 18, 2006 3pd 03:18 DET @ ANA Shane O'Brien -Voted winner: Draw (67.4%) So in his 5 fights when wih the Wings (1 Preseason and 4 regular season) he was 2-1-2. No not the heavyweight champ but given the names on his fight card this was far from a bad showing.

"This "sof tteam of European wusses" almost went to the SCF last year" KEY WORD IS ALMOST. they didnt win, and with the lack of size and toughness in the lineup they will not win the cup this year, i am not happy about that, i am not content with that either, however i realize that it is a fact Yes it is absolutely ridiculous that ppl can try to legitimatly argue points like "Would Stu Grimson have changed things", and "The Wings would of won if a couple bounces went their way" It doesnt matter, both are non-points in this argument because the outcome has allready occured, we lost. We were close, very clse to having the team we needed, and we remain on the verge of having that team right now but losing bertuzzi (which i was never a huge fan of but i realize he is a big, physical body that we despretly need) and markov and adding drake was like taking one step forward and two steps back. AND STFU about it being a stereotype euros are soft, the majority of euros are skill and finesse players, who do not base their game around a in your face, gritty hockey style. Its not a negative thing its just how it is. I love our euros, and europeans in the NHL at that, and without skill, speed, finesse, etc guys a team wouldnt be able to winchampionships either. I am just saying we need a mixtre of that element and then some toughness and grit to complement it. PS-it's not a question wether or not Babcock likes having enforcers in his lineup, look at his years in Anaheim. If it were up to him we would be dressing a insurance policy each and every night.

Nevermind I was wrong it was an archived article from when they signed him to a 1 yr deal last year. *ASHAM PLEASE* Nov 28, 2003 2pd 15:46 NYI @ DET Jason Williams Voted winner: Arron Asham (100.0%) Dec 26, 2003 2pd 12:24 NYI @ NJD David Hale Voted winner: Arron Asham (90.0%) Jan 01, 2004 3pd 08:18 NYI @ OTT Chris Neil Voted winner: Arron Asham (54.5%) Jan 29, 2004 2pd 19:42 NYI @ BOS Jiri Slegr Voted winner: Arron Asham (100.0%) Feb 18, 2004 1pd 14:01 @ NYI PIT Tom Kostopoulos Voted winner: Arron Asham (95.6%) Feb 19, 2004 3pd 18:32 NYI @ NYR Matt Barnaby Voted winner: Arron Asham (95.1%) Mar 27, 2004 3pd 00:53 @ NYI CAR Craig Adams Voted winner: Arron Asham (82.1%) Nov 10, 2005 1pd 15:32 NYI @ PHI Mike Richards Voted winner: Arron Asham (92.8%) Feb 11, 2006 1pd 02:54 NYI @ NJD Cam Janssen **DRAW: 1 of these 2 CLASSIC BATTLES** Nov 02, 2006 1pd 02:47 NYI @ NJD Cam Janssen **DRAW IN THE 2ND BATTLE** Nov 09, 2006 1pd 17:51 NYI @ PHI Mike Richards Voted winner: Arron Asham (62.5%) Nov 22, 2006 3pd 11:48 @ NYI CAR Craig Adams Voted winner: Arron Asham (94.9%) Feb 17, 2007 1pd 03:12 @ NYI NJD Cam Janssen *WOW PLEASE SIGN THIS GUY* Feb 27, 2007 2pd 06:29 @ NYI PHI Darren Reid Voted winner: Arron Asham (91.6%) This is our guy, I know we won't get him but I am telling you we sign this kid we are set. KENNY PLEASE! "Arron Asham is 5'11 210lbs, and Robert Lang had more PIMS then him last year... Hardly the guy to make any player shake in their boots. " Speaks for himself in the showing against top 5 Heavyweight Cam Jansen. Do some research before you say things like this

What about Ryan Malone? Is he still available or no? He is good for 30+ points a year and adds some grit

Well I wouldnt be signing Reed Low to score so I could care less wether or not he has any career goals. asham doesnt lose fights though, you are right he is a very selective spot picker. anyways he re-signed with the Islanders. So I guess its final. I would like to be the first of many to prematurly give Reed Low a warm Detroit Red Wings welcome *or Ryan Malone with a outside chance of a Chris Simon*

"Gee, what a surprise--Kp-Wings is back with his typical act, prejudicing against Europeans and thinking that he somehow knows more about the team's needs and reality than does Ken Holland." euros are good for speed and goals, not grit and dig. its not prejudice son its a fact. I love our little euro highlight reels, zett is the future of the team. however when i am looking for toughness i tend to find the pickings slim in the euro player pool. and dont bother mentioning every tough euro that has played, i know there has been some. but they are the moniority not the majority of the group Thortons gone huh, dang. F*ck it lets sign Reed Low he can give the entire 2nd line a piggy back ride to the Bus after the game if its cold out

Shawn Thorton would be a nice, cheap pickup. A guy that can stand in there with any body in the league and he can play. You asked who I would get and this is my answer.

"You remember that hockey from 20 years ago. These days, Kocur (nice spelling, btw) would quickly find himself on the butt-end of a long suspension and a hefty fine." BULLSH*T the number of suspensions due to stick swinging, hits from behind, knee to knee hits, and elbows to the head have skyrocketed since the instigator was added. 20 years ago that garbage wasnt prevalent because guys like Kocur would knock your front teeth out if you took advantage of a skill guy on his team "Great--find us a guy like Travis Moen and I'm sure everyone will be happy to take him. None of the guys you've mentioned are even remotely in Moen's league." hahaha Asham had better numbers then him all years, and the years past and you just said Asham wasnt the guy. If it wasnt for moens playoff showing you would have so much sh*t to talk if i came on the board and said we need a guy like travis moen. "None of the guys you've mentioned are even remotely in Moen's league, and that is the reason they are available." wow you are sharp, wait, no...Not one of the guys I mentioned is available, nice try though

"Maltby wouldn't drop the gloves because he's one punch in the eye away from blindness" Well with all this talk about 'wasting spots' on tough guys i think we should all be a little more concerned with wasting spots on guys 1 punch away from blindness. "George Parros and Andrew Peters did almost precisely jacksh*t for their respective teams. Parros, in particular, hardly even played during the playoffs. You are vastly overstating the impact of these players, who in addition to being relatively frequent healthy scratches also pretty much never scored or contributed in any significant way." blah blah blah the Parros argument is spent bro. Instead lets talk about Travis Moen, a gritty, enforcer type who had 11 goals and 10 assists all year not to mention 10 FM's and 101 Peanlty Minutes. What did this 'waste of roster spot" do in the playoffs, OH YA 7 goals and 5 assists. Character guy, role player, fighter, not the most impressive numbers but a team guy and look what happens he turns out to be arguably one of their mvp's in the playoffs. Who would I want, I would love a guy like Josh Gratton, DJ King, Chris Thorburn, John Erskine, Triston Grant, etc. There are a ton of fully capable NHL players who can play the 3-4th line and throw the fists.

"I would love a fighter, but not at the expense of having a Hudler or a Flip out of a roster spot. If we could get a PRODUCING fighter, then I am all for it. But a Laraque, Boogaard, Ivanans, Worrell... eh, no thanks." i definitly hear you but you have to trade skill sets sometimes in order for an overall better balanced team. Say a NFL didnt opt to go with any real big linemen, instead go with a smaller faster line. That line would be really good at a couple things and helpless at others. But I do agree of not wanting to give up point getters for a piece of garbage. Laraque (would love him, check his stats 2 yrs ago in edm. not all that bad for guy getting the minutes he did) Boogard (agree however he is such a monster he would be hard to turn down if offered. ps i hate his guts either way) worrell (agree 100% this guy is garbage wouldnt take him under any circumstances) "If you're so fond of hf boards go post there." I do, when i am done here. thanks champ!

when it comes to hockey yes, and you are proving it by commenting "because i dont think we need an enforcer". I am not really assuming anything either, i am forming an opinion of your hockey views, nothing else, just your hockey views.

You just dont get it so I am done trying. I will respect those who deserve it and I dont care how long you have posted here in my eyes you are a simple, one dimensional thinker (at least in regards to hockey, I have no clue how you are outside that so i cannot judge) who refuses to see the bigger picture here. "As for a cut and dry answer to whether i'd rather have a tough, gritty 75 fight team who loses in the playoffs vs a team with no fighters winning the cup?". wow, that is tough, well the wings had 12 fm and didnt win the cup so i guess we got the short end of the stick both ways huh?

Aaron Asham, thats it he's the man we need. Would fit in the 3rd line f"ing like a glove and roll heads along the way. I am telling you this kid is the missing link we need. Forget Yashin, he's garbage and no I am not waiting to next year when the UFA crop is fresh that is probably the worst mindset for a profesional sports team i have ever heard. Aaron Asham Kenny, pull the trigger PLEASE!

"What sucks about this post is that you make some GREAT points that I agree with 100% about hockey and then follow them up with peronsal attacks. This is a forum where everyone can state their opinions." I agree, I shouldnt get personal. My bad about that, I just get pissed when ppl simply to refuse that fighting is part of hockey and that is not going to change. And one playoff series or one team will not change that, no matter how many "purely skill oriented ie hands, speed, etc" players they have. its fact "Why do you alway insist on stereotyping and generalizing all European-born hockey players as either being small or soft or being wusses?" Its not a stereotype, well all euros arent small but 9 out of 10 european born players dont play that north american style of hockey. there is nothing negative about it, they just are brought up learning the game differently where the fighting and contact are not emphasisezed. Alot of hockey over in Europe does not even allow checking till players are much older then they do in North America.

Aaron Asham, nuf said. Realize we prolly cant afford him but man, the kid can play and is a friggin warrior. Would fit in perfectly here. woulda, coulda, shoulda though so oh well.

"There are a number of Wings who won't take s*** from other guys - Maltby, Cleary, Chelios, Lijia, Franzen, now Drake, and even Zetterberg mixes it up nicely from time to time. I really don't think the Wings are ever playing scared, and the product they put on the ice proves it. Its important to have guys like Cleary who are hard nosed hockey players, but having a guy who goes out to get even for supposed cheap shots was not, and is not necessary." BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ya, bro wake up or shut up because it is evident you are absolutely clueless. "Your numbers are irrelevant. 6/10 times in your stats, the team with FEWER fighting majors won the cup. The Canes won the Cup with a WHOPING 19 fighting majors last year!? Whooiieee. Even though I am sure it would make no difference to the argument, i'd like to see the fighting major TOTALS for every team for the last 10 years, and we will see how many times a team with high FM won the cup. I don't know what more you want. The Wings won the fricken conf. last year and barring injuries vs. the Ducks, very well could have won the cup. " You are ignorant, the numbers are far from irrelevevant, they illustrate that teams that have FM's in the single digits simply do not win cups you twit. It shows that to be a well rounded hockey unit having players willing to drop em here and there is a must. I knew funboys like you would bring up the canes, and even they double the FM's detroit has racked up over the past 2 years combined. Keep with your philosophy of "Maltby, Cleary, Franzen (bahahahahahahahahaha)" not taking s*** and the conference finals is the farthest you'll ever see this team go. I am sorry bro but your inability to grasp a funamental idea leads me to believe you are just a slow individual whom does not deserve nor warrant any further explanation into how things really are. PS- Southern Wings fan, I have forgotten more about this team and hockey in general then you will ever know so pipe down smallfry and go back to the "Why wont Babs play Hudler more" threads.

"Oh no, not Norton?? Now the Sharks "toughness" will REALLY overwhelm us. Just like during the playoffs. lol" Are you 12 years old? Seriously not trying to insult you, your middle school wit just oozes out of your posts. Norton is a hell of a role player, and did exactly what he was brought in for its a shame he didnt see more time up. For all you comics mocking Nortons toughness take a second and look up the size, and weight of some of his tilt partners. God, this is getting sick, will converse for days, to the verge of tears on "Babs not playing Hudler" or "Will Kindl be up this year or maybe Erikson huh?" etc. Some of you, NOT ALL (many here are obvious fans of the greatest game in the world and are incredibly knowlegable on both Detroit hockey and the game as a whole) but others come off a seriously sounding ignorant. PLEASE stay awy from the HFforums with some of your arguments you will make Detroit fans look bad

Wow I am so sick of the anti-policeman sentiment around here I will just have to shut the naysayers down. I mean you can hear the posters here getting off when Hudler or Flip is mentioned but they scoff in almost a condesending "we are above that" sense when the topic of bringing in a tough guy is brough up. Enforcement for your finesse guys is as important as almost any part of the game, "blah blah blah parros didnt play blah blah" ya I understand this, however he did play night in and night out getting them there, he was a role player who did his job and helped his team. Hockey is more then the playoffs, it is a grind of a season and having a tough guy (no Franzen facewashing someone with the linesmen in between them does not constitut toughness) helps preserve your skill guys. Case in point Drury got run at in the Ottawa game, Peters didnt have it, and we all know what went down. And ya know what after that night Drury, nor Briere, etc were run at in such a blatent fashion the rest of the season, coincidence? Maybe, but doubtful. Williams, Lebda, Franzen, Homer, Hasek countles times had liberties taken on them with no recourse, and if we are going to continue to do nothing someone will get seriously hurt, mark my words. Below illustrates my argument, you see they are numbers, cold hard statistics, FACT. And the first person who can tell me the diff b/t the Wings (last 2 years and by the looks of it this ear as well) and the teams listed gets a dolla HOLLA! **Totals are Regular season and Playoffs ONLY** 07-Ducks (75 FM's) v. Senators (28 FM's) 06-Carolina (19 FM's) v. Edmonton (31 FM's) 04-Tampa Bay (51 FM's) v. Calgary (85 FM's) 03-New Jersey (44 FM's) v. Ducks (33 FM's) *02-Red Wings (21 FM's) v. Carolina (33 FM's) 01-Colorado (50 FM's) v. New Jersey (56 FM's) 00-New Jersey (47 FM's) v. Dallas (37 FM's) 99-Dallas (35 FM) v. Buffalo (52 FM's) *98-Red Wings (33 FM's) v. Washington (32 FM's) *97-Red Wings (62 FM's) v. Philly (82 FM's) *****Above are the regular season and playoff fighting majors for the teams in stanley cup finals. The total Detroit Red Wing FM count FOR 2005-2006 (6 FM) AND 2006-2007 (12 FM) IS 18 TOTAL FIGHTING MAJORS. that is less then the smallest number above (06 Carolia).**** In closing I am not saying we need to have 75 FM a year, or anyhting close to that but clearly fighting is a big component of winning teams, that is unarguable. Its more then the actual fight, its what the fight does for the players on the team and their confidence, chemistry, and eventual team unity. Now for all you euro-style fanatics have at it, blah blah blah, we dont need enforcers, etc etc. The truth is in the numbers though, and the numbers greatly support the notion that willing tough guys are a big part of championship winning teams.

Hmm interesting, Brad Ference has a pretty decent fight card, with some good tilts against legit middleweights. Another plus is he TKO'd Darcy Tucker then was mocking him (i have an utter distain for Darcy Tucker). Other notable tilts include Jordin Tootoo, PJ Stock, Owen Nolan, Matt Barnaby, Crraig Adams, Wayne Redden, Ryan Flinn, Rick Jackman, Keith Tchauck (sp?), and some other notables. His record isnt half bad, not a heavyweight but a very legit middleweight, and he isnt all that old either. Maybe he will suprise ppl in camp, probably just wishfull thinking but ya never know, look at dan Cleary eh?

"I'm pretty much 100 per cent on your side of this debate, but just for argument's sake I'll say the '02 Wings didn't have an enforcer. McCarty, maybe, but he was already much less of an enforcer than he was earlier in his career." I hear what you were saying, and I agree with you about McCarty's decline as the "enforcer" he had been in years past. However the 2002 team had a handfull of others willing to drop the mitts on a somewhat frequent basis: McCarty- 7 FM Avery- 6 FM Shanny- 6 FM Fischer and J. Wallin with a fight a piece. So ya you're right we did not have a bonified enforcer, but we had it spread out, policing the team that is.

Not really, he said that a hockey fight hasnt ended careers and he was wrong so I called him on it. I am not syaing I know everyhting about hockey but what I do know is that I will not comment on something if I am not knowlegable on it, I might ask a question but not make a statement, that is something a lot of others should try to do more of here. I mean the anti fighting sentiment here is sickening, i would love for someone to name 1 great team that did not have an enforcer whatsoever protecting their skill guys. 1 great team thats all i ask. Guess what you cant, and no matter how much ppl here hide from the fact that fighting is part of the game, and regardless of the instigator rule is going to remain part of the game posts such as "Why would we eat up a roster spot with a tough guy, he cant score". Well i guess its the same reason you have a backup goalie who doesnt play even a minute most nights, they are both there in case something unforseen/negative happens and they both have vital roles for their squad. 1 Great team without an enforcer please, actually scratch that, 1 stanley cup winning team without an enforcer. SHIP IT PLEASE