Third Man In

Sorry, you're right--I reached for the wrong name. But the larger point is that we need to stop pinning the Oilers series on Manny. Yes, Roloson played better, but Manny wasn't the only Red Wing goalie to lay an egg in the playoffs. And more importantly, the Oilers exposed a team that was older and more importantly not very tough to play against. Fixing this was a much bigger reason why the Wings went farther last year than the goaltending situation.

I dunno. The names "Roloson" and "Vanbiesbrouck" come to mind, both of whom made the Cup Finals...

Me too. Manny wasn't ready to be a playoff goalie in 2006. But the regular season stats were far from a "joke": 37-8-3, 2.19 GAA, .915 SV%. Goalies often need to fail once or twice to be ready (see Ozzie in '94). Who knows? With another chance maybe it would have been a different story.

I gonna be the downer here and say let's not look ahead too much to the playoffs. It's great to see the team playing well and earning a lot of points in October that they'll need down the line, but it's too early look that far ahead. I haven't seen Ozzie this locked in since he came back to the Wings. If he can see it and get to it, he's gonna stop it.

A couple thoughts on tonight's game: 1. Is Cleary snakebit or what? He's created so much, both on his own and for others (witness his setup on the last PP). He could have twice as many points. 2. Dustin Penner looks a bit lost out there. I was at the Ducks/Oilers game Sunday, and watching tonight was more of the same. Perhaps too much pressure on the kid after the high-profile deal, eh?

Not surprising at all if this is true. I've had very mixed feelings about the cap system, but it's not good at all for the league if mid-level European players like Markov can find a better deal back home. This will really expose how overexpanded the league is if this trend continues.

This is a fair concern--it's hard to know how rapidly a player's skills will decline when they get in their upper-30s, especially when they rely a lot on speed, as does Draper. That being said, I'm really happy to see this deal. And the way the cap has gone up each of the past two seasons, the salary won't be a burden in terms of cap space.

Pain Train + Downey = Bruise Brothers, Part Deux

It's only silly if you think personal achievement is the only thing that factors in. Statistically, yes, Fedorov has a much more solid case. Again, I wasn't arguing that the Wings should or should not retire either. I'm speculating what they are likely to do, for all sorts of reasons beyond just stats and personal awards. If anything, I think too many numbers are retired (see Bourque in Colorado after only one season), and they probably should retire neither. Neither is in the same category as Lids.

I'm not arguing we should retire Shanny and not Fedorov. I'm arguing you should either retire both or neither. But I'm also suggesting that because Shanny is much better liked and left the team on much better terrns, what is more likely to (wrongly) happen is that Shanny's will be retired but not Fedorov's. Unless, I should have added, if the team doesn't win another cup for 40 years... As for the missing piece argument not being very solid: fair enough.

There are at least two factors that go into retiring a player's number: 1. Career performance 2. Performance while with the team And I think there is a third: the success of the team while that player was on it. Remember, for a long time Howe's was the only retired number. The Wings didn't retire Abel's, Lindsay's, Delveccio's, and Sawchuk's numbers until the early 90s, when the team was making a concerted effort to win its first cup since they played. Based on these three criteria (and any other), Lidstrom is of course a no brainer. But I think that a case could be made that both Shanahan's and Fedorov's numbers could be retired, not just based on individual performance but also as another way, along with the Stanley Cup banners, to commemorate the team's three recent cups. Shanahan's number likely will be retired, especially since he was widely regarded as the missing piece in 97. And though it's hard to make a case to retire one and not the other, I doubt Fedorov's number will be retired. Ozzie's should be next

Hello all. I'm an ex-pat Detroiter living in Los Angeles and new to the boards. I was at the game last night, and except for maybe the first one, the goals weren't Bernier's fault. As MacK says, the move is contractual. And while the Kings' management isn't known for brilliant decisions, you probably don't want to ruin your (hoped-for) goalie of the future when he's 19 by playing him behind a team that's going to get him shelled every night...