Z and D for the C

So saying that 2 months is a ton of time to recover from a leg injury (which is way worse in terms of fitness level than a wrist injury, especially for a player with skating as one of his biggest strengths) for one player but 7 months isn't enough for another player with a wrist injury isn't completely biased and delusional? Okay. Sorry, keep on going everyone. Filppula sucks with his 9 points in 12 games and Weiss is way better with his 2 points in 13.

Wow. You literally just said that Filppula should have had no trouble because of his injury because he had "two months" to recover, even though that "recovery time" was actually being injured time. Now you say that for Weiss, 7 months isn't enough for a full recovery? Un-*******-believable. I can stand people disagreeing with me, but when your logic is COMPLETELY reversed to support something else, you become a tool. Filppula also had a wrist injury in the middle of the season, came back, and then had 26 points in 31 games. But I'm sure you think that was a horrible season for him. Seriously cannotf****** believe what I just read. And I'm biased. At least I base my opinion off facts and logic that doesn't change every week or to fit whatever bulls*** narrative I want to push.

That's horrible, hope he recovers. I'll be praying. I just wished there was something I could do to actually help...

If the only thing that matters for a player's production is whether or not he's on a championship caliber team, then what separates the good teams from the bad teams? The fact is he was on the top of the depth chart, with the most TOI likely of their forwards, and he still didn't produce that much. If your role is reduced, you will produce less. It's simple and it's obvious. And yes, Filppula has never been nearly as high on the depth chart as Weiss. Just because he is the #2 center doesn't make him #2 on the depth chart. Zetterberg, Datsyuk and Franzen have always been higher up than Filppula. That places him at #4 at best. If he was here this year, he would be 5th behind Alfreddson. When Hudler was here, he was behind Hudler. When Hossa was here, Filppula wasn't even in the top 6 for most of the year. He has never been high on the depth chart, period. Not that I would agree with his placment, but that is where the management has placed him. If you argue that place on the depth chart has nothing to do with production, you're a fool. Simple as. Weiss has played with much better linemates over his career as well. And again, has only marginally better stats to show for it.

Really? Wiess has basically been the Panther's #1 guy forever while Filppula, at absolute best, has been #4 in the depth chart, and more like around #5/6/7 for most of his career. And Weiss has only marginally more PPG than Filppula (.59 vs .53). Filppula also has a Stanley Cup and has never missed the playoffs. If I was a hockey player, I would much rather have Filppula's career over Weiss.

You must agree that Filppula would be doing better, because you're only argument here is that Weiss is doing so poorly because he's on a new team. But Filppula, if he was in Weiss's spot, isn't new to the Red Wings, so he would be doing better. I'm using your logic here. What little I can scrape together, that is.

If you asked me, I'd say that people resorted to idiotic hyperbole when they either don't have an argument, or aren't smart enough to make one. Which one are you?

Yes, he would be doing better. Maybe not as good as he is doing in Tampa right now, because as I've said all along, the problem with the second line has never been Filppula, but the wingers. As right now the problem is like not Weiss (though he is performing particularly poorly), it is the wingers. We're a really strong team with center, but have few good wingers.

I'm basing it on his entire career. Also, I believe we won the Stanley Cup with Filppula centering the second line and went to game seven of the finals with Fil centering the second line. When Fil had his 66 point season it wasn't because he wasn't playing center, it was because he was playing with linemates who aren't lazy and who can make plays. Correlation =/= Causation.

Tell that to Tampa who has Filppula with 9 points in 10 games centering his own line.

I think if you're arguing that Filppula doesn't need time to adjust and Weiss does it simply boils down to Filppula being the better player.

So your logic is that Weiss is new to his team so his production will improve while Filppula, since he is new to his team, is producing at higher than normal levels?

Tell that to Steve Yzerman and the lighting, where he has 8 points in 9 games centering his own line. Filppula isn't the problem. His wingers are. This is being proven with Weiss. I'm not writing off Weiss. I'm saying that we could bring in any second line center we want and our second line will suck because we have s***ty wingers our top six. I don't have to convince you. It's being proven on the ice as it will be proven through the rest of the season. And to say that a second line center who you think is better than Filppula only having 2 points in 11 games is just him "warming up to a new team", that's ridiculous. Filppula probably never went a stretch of having 2 points in 11 games outside of last season and maybe his first couple years. If Flip's 40 points is pathetic, what does that make Weiss, who you're trying to hard to make excuses for? I could see somewhat lower production because of a new team, but 2 points in 11 games? That is pathetic. And I'm all in favor of having Weiss play with Zetterberg or Datsyuk.

Please. Even when Fil wasn't producing offense he was still working hard almost every single shift. And I like how while what I've said all along is being proven, people are still denying it. We're having the same 2nd line problems with our new 2nd line center that was supposed to solve those problems. Why? Because the reason our 2nd line sucks is because of the baggage we have in the top 6. Franzen, Bertuzzi, Cleary, etc. Did Weiss and Alfredsson add to the baggage? Time will tell. All I know is until we get a legit second line winger, Weiss will never produce more than Filppula did while he was here.

We also miss Lang, Maltby and Draper.

What does it matter how physical it is if he ends up with the puck, which he usually does?

Sorry for being a broken record, but how are people saying that Flip wasn't good on the boards? Not only was he always battling for the puck when it was on the boards, but he often won it.

I'm sure that if I died and my family was able to contact me when I was a spirit, the only thing I would talk about is how much I wanted a cigar. Not what death was like, what afterlife is like, how is everyone, etc. Definitely just random cravings.

Yeah let's definitely accept that as fact, because you've been right about everything else so far. #sarcasm

And if you really want to examine Franzen vs Filppula's play last season, lets do that. http://hockey.dobbersports.com/frozenpool_profiler.php?players=541&sent=go&games=2012-2013%3AR http://hockey.dobbersports.com/frozenpool_profiler.php?players=545&sent=go&games=2012-2013%3AR http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?season=20122013&gameType=2&team=DET&position=F&country=&status=&viewName=points http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?season=20122013&gameType=2&team=DET&position=F&country=&status=&viewName=timeOnIce Filppula had 14 points even strength versus Franzen's 19. Yeah, Franzen scored a little more than him but thne look who he played with at even strength versus Filppula: Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Brunner and Abdelkader, Filppula. All plays who work hard every single shift. Of course he'll score more in that position. But lets really look at what gave Franzen so many more points than Filppula: the power play. He played more minutes on the powerplay along with playing with Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Brunner whereas Filppula played less minutes with Nyquist, Bertuzzi, Sammeulson and Cleary. You really wonder why he didn't score as much as Franzen? Give me a break.

Filppula scored the only shootout goal in the second game to win it for the Lightning. And a goal is a goal, it means he and his linemates were doing the right thing. If we were talking about every one of his goals being a deflection off his body, like Cleary in the playoffs, you'd have a point. As for his linemates, you're completely wrong. http://hockey.dobbersports.com/frozenpool_profiler.php?players=545&sent=go&games=2012-2013%3AR Yeah, he did play with Pav and Z a decent amount. But he also had to play with Cleary, Franzen and Bertuzzi a lot as well. And for a player whose role on the team was than it should be given his skills and who was over shadowed, always, but two top tier centers and has had a rocky career, yes, playing on a contract year was likely difficult. The fact is if you examine his prior 2 or 3 seasons before his 66 point season, just like you did with his goals this season, you'd see that his point totals were misleading and he had some pretty dominant stretches. And for his injury, you come up completely wrong again. He sprained his MCL mid November and the season started mid January. He was skating for barely a couple weeks before the season started and probably only because the season was starting. I think you can definitely say his knee was bothering him during the season as it was obvious he wasn't skating as well as he normally does. http://redwings.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=649718 http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/eye-on-hockey/20979619/red-wings-valtteri-filppula-sprains-mcl-in-finland-out-68-weeks I'm not arguing that Filppula is a bonafide super star or that he's never had consistency issues. It has nothing to do with what position he played. The different was he played with hard working players who could make plays. Stop trying so hard. Find a person who thinks that any of the four forwards I mentioned are hard working players shift in shift out (you know, like Filppula).

Forgive me for being excited that Flip is doing so well already with his brand new team where basically everyone here was saying "Flip sucks get rid of him". To say that Flip wasn't working as a Wing is dumb. He scored 66 points and was tied for 12th in the league in even strength scoring despite only receiving 66th as much even strength ice time. The problem wasn't Filppula, it was our wingers that are 3rd line players at best who float and can't make plays. And it will be illustrated again, this year, when Weiss doesn't do much better than Flip ever did.

Fil has had a goal or assist in every game with the lightning. That is pretty much the opposite of Weiss so far. Yeah, we don't know what the next 78 games are going to bring, but I'm willing to bet at the end of the year most people will be wishing we resigned Filppula for $5 million instead of Weiss. Even if Weiss matches Filppula's offensive output, will he do half of the other things Filppula does? Unlikely.

I'm sorry, but have you and I been watching different National Hockey Leagues? One in which Franzen, Sameulsson, Bertuzzi and Cleary are skilled workhorses who make the players around them better? And I've been saying for years, with basically everyone telling me I was wrong, that Filppula had 70 point potential. His 66 point season was a long time coming, which proved me right, and the next year was simply an off year in which he was weighed down by lazy linemates, a shortened season which he was injured leading up to and the pressure of a contract year. He'll scored 60 again this year, if not 70 or more.

I guess Zetterberg didn't really score 40 goals ever in his career because some of them came, surely, because Datsyuk did all the work. Also, thanks for proving my point that Filppula will excel with linemates who actually do work, unlike the majority of his time spent with the Wings, which is why he never did very well. As will also be proven when Wiess fails to put up numbers with Franzen on his wing. And, however you opposite-of-sugar-coat it, both of those goals were great shots, especially for someone like Filppula who isn't that much of a goal scorer. And I like how you call me biased yet are trying so hard to put down Filppula so as to not possibly entertain the fact that Holland made the wrong move by not keeping Filppula. Mark my words (as everything I've said about Filppula has been right in the past, no one said he would break 60 points, but he almost got 70, just like I've always said he was capable of), Filppula will have another career year and emerge as a force and great signing by Yzerman.