Z and D for the C

If you gave him competent wingers (read: not Franzen or Cleary), he would produce.

Probably when he was 13th in even strength scoring (ahead of Datsyuk and Zetterberg) in the league despite being 30 something in even strength time on ice. I think that advances the argument a little.

Bold faced lies from both them and the organization seem way worse to me than whatever "disloyalty" would be portrayed by retiring. Franzen is barely effective now. I shudder to think what he'll be like in 7 or 8 years when his contract ends getting paid $3.9m, especially because everyone is so adamant about getting rid of old guys (like Filppula, apparently) for the new young ones.

This isn't true. Zetterberg and Datsyuk started the season together and were only split up when it was obvious the second line was struggling. Otherwise he played with Franzen and a bottom 6er. He got power play time, yeah, but all other top 6 forwards (Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, Brunner) played on the top unit and Filppula played with Griffins on the second pp unit. Filppula still had a poor season, but I'm just stating the facts.

I'm worried that Holland would trade away valuable, ripe young talent as a result of being "too good" or "loyal" to use buyouts on used up players like Sameulsson and Bertuzzi.

Like rick zombo said, I was referring to his huge plays in the Ducks series. I recognize that he was very underwhelming in the Chicago series (like many of our players) and throughout the whole year. Which is why I, like everyone, don't think he should get a large payday from the Wings unless he proves himself with a short term contract with an extremely modest raise.

Keeping Filppula got us within 1 goal of having a serious chance at winning the cup. Hindsight is 20/20, but there is no way to say that Filppula should have been traded unless it was for a star.

Yeah, he's one of the best skaters in the league, let alone on our own team. How many points does 66 points count for when it's Filppula who scored them? Does Filppula's 23 goals have less game winning ability than Zetterberg's 22 goals that season or Datsyuk's 19? Filppula scored more goals than both of our two best forwards, but no one is saying that Pav and Z aren't good enough goal scorers. I'll hold my breathe for the answers to these questions.

So you're just refusing to address any of the arguments I make, and then just rehash what everyone already thinks anyway? I don't want to pay him even $5m right now either because we can't know what player is going to show up. But if he is scoring 60-70 points, yeah, he's worth $5m. You can't tell me he's not. Filppula was 12th in even strength scoring in 11-12 (ahead of Datsyuk and Zetterberg) despite playing far less at even strength than anyone who scored as much as him at even strength and is one of the better defensive forwards in the league. If you told a GMs a player was going to have those kind of stats next year, he'd get 6 or 7 million. This is why I'd like to see him get a 2 year contract for around what me makes now to see if he can play at that level. If not, sign him for cheap or let him walk. I'll paypal you $20 right now if you can find a video of one time he was on a breakaway and passed the puck. And 66 points is a lot of points for someone who literally kills offense. So should our team only be Datsyuk and Zetterberg because everyone else is just a worse version of them (a hockey player)?

We have to be watching different games. Apart from Pav or Z, who is better than Flip on forward? Cleary got points this playoffs a lot from pucks bouncing off him and Franzen is a lazy POS who only scores goals when other players get him a spectacular scoring chance. Fil has tons more skill than Cleary and tons more work ethic than Franzen. He is an incredible puck possession player, usually wins battles along the boards with his finesse and is excellent (maybe best on the team) at skating the puck through the neutral zone and setting up in the offensive zone. Not to mention always back checking and being great on defense. You can't say anything of these things about Cleary or Franzen. If you rate players but outcome versus expectation (which is what you;re doing), yeah, he's not going to be near the top. But if you rate players on what they actually do, he's the best forward on the team not named Zetterberg or Datsyuk. It's just like Hossa's playoff run with us. The way people talked about it you would think he had 3 points in 30 games, when in reality he was still one of our top scorers, he just didn't play as well as we thought he would. That doesn't mean he sucks. And just for the record, I don't think we should give him over $4m long term at least until he can prove that he is the 70 points Filppula, not the 40 point Filppula. I'm just saying he's a better overall player than both Franzen and Cleary.

He played half a season. We don't know what we're comparing yet. I'd give him a two year deal for 2.25m to prove himself.

I have wet dreams about a top 6 of Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen & Brunner, Filppula, Hossa. (and that was just last night)

Aw <3

If you added as many $1m/yr years Hossa has on the end of Filppula's contract, Flip's hit would probably be < $3m/yr. And I seriously don't know why people keeping bringing up the $5m number that Flip was asking for before the season was halfway over and before he had a s***ty year. The fact is he was coming off an almost 70 point season and when he scores 60-70 points, he'd be easily worth $5 million a year. But he had a s***ty contract year and I'm sure what he's asking of Holland had gone down.

It's still easier to flip the puck over the glass than ice it. Look at penalty killing. Can a team always ice it as easily as flipping the puck of the ice? No, they can't. The rule is there to prevent it from happening. Make it just an icing and it will happen all the time.

Clarkson or Horton. Ribeiro would be okay for the right price as well. He's too old, I'd rather invest in someone who can benefit us for a longer period.

Who is talking about signing him for 5mil anymore? I don't want him at $5m either. Flip asking for $5m is ancient history by now, he was asking for that after coming off his 66 point season (which would make him deserve $5m). After realizing that he didn't have a good season, I'm sure that asking price has come down.

I agree. Like I've said, give him a 2 year deal in the mid $3m range to see if he can score 60+ points again. If not, either let him walk or sign him for less than 3 mill. Worst case scenario he becomes one of the best players on a third line in the league for a year. Best case scenario he goes back to 70 point Filppula mode and is a huge asset and one of the best two way players in the league. Seriously, someone tell me I'm wrong. And if so, why.

Ask the 30 GMs who would die for Filppula to play on their team for the right price. Great skater, great puck control, great battler, hustles his ass off every shift, great two-way play, great at faceoffs and big offensive potential. We've all seen what Filppula can do and how much he can score. If we can see the 60-70 point Filppula again, isn't it worth giving him a short contract to try and prove himself again? I feel like that is reasonable. Someone tell me if I'm wrong. Helm should center the third line (hoping that he returns, I think he will) and Brunner should get a top 6 spot.

This. If his cap hit came off when he retired, no way should we buy him out. But we will be saddled with a big cap hit for nothing. If he plays till the end of his contract, he'll be an even more frustrating player for the last 4 years of it (if not more) and we'll be paying $4m for him. Franzen isn't going to be getting any better.

Funny, you can say this exact same thing about Filppula. What the hell does Franzen do that Filppula doesn't? They both have the exact same amount of points, except Franzen played way more minutes, Filppula was way better on faceoffs, took less penalties, was better defensively, skated harder, battled better, scored at even strength, actually tried to contribute. But for you, Filppula is a momentum killer who needs to go while Franzen needs to stay. (Oh, and Filppula does this at almost a million less a year too) Sorry dude, but any hope you had of giving objective commentary is gone. I'd rather have a 25-30 goals scorer who actually works for 5 million than Franzen, who scored that many goals because other people worked to get a great chance for him for 3.9 million. Plus, lets not forget about the benefit recapture penalty. Either he plays 7 more years (which god knows I don't want) or we have a huge cap hit for a few years for nothing.

His production for the cap hit is great, but I'm worried about what happens when he retires and we have a huge cap hit on our hands for nothing. Thats the only reason I'd want to buy him out.

We have two buys outs we can use, right? I feel like using those on players who only have one year left anyway is a waste (Bert and Sammy). A more wise choice might be using it on Franzen looking towards the future. Obviously I want Flip back, but if he didn't come back it wouldn't be the worst thing for the team as long as we got another second line center so Z and Pav can be put together.

If anything that is an argument FOR making the trade. We lost. but Jagr might have put us over the top, and that is the point of deadline trades.

Who does?