Z and D for the C

Flames v Sharks Bruins v Devils Sharks v Devils ^ That would be an awesome matchup.

Do they have any fans?

Looks like Ozzie is really coming around, and I can't be happier. Now our only weakness is... oh wait.

For the people who think he completely sucks. He's played most of the year on the third line and how that he's playing with hossa on the second he is producing. For forwards, the big three and franzen have more ES time on ice per game. Flip has 26 ES points to franzen's 21. Take it for what you will.

We could go 0-82, as long as we win the cup I don't give a s*** about the regular season. Why on earth would you. The playoffs are what the Wings play for and it's the only thing that matters. Did anyone go into July thinking "YES WE GOT THE PRESIDENTS CUP PARTY HARD". I heard fireworks when we won the cup, not clinched the president's trophy. I care about the president's trophy, but only because we get home ice. If the Red Wings got home ice regardless of their place in the standings, I could care less about whether we get first, second, or eigth place. Frankly it's a legit strategy. There is no need for us to go all out in the regular season, we're making the playoffs unless we completely tank which won't happen and we kick it up when it matters. We've seen it before. Think the Sharks games or the Chicago games. Now if they're purposely losing games so they can get a particular first round matchup, that's lame.

In every definition of the term. I'm sure he'd run and hide if Maltby challenged him to a fight.

That's the point. Why would that be so horrible? The league still functioned without a salary cap at all if I'm not mistaken, so why can't it function with one that just can't go down?

I swear to god, the wings may be the best offensive team in the league, and they may have the best powerplay. But our 5 on 3 is the worst, along with our odd man offensive situations.

I hope Datsyuk and Z have a big game. They need it.

What about adding a rule of sorts that says the salary cap can increase but it cannot go below the salary cap of the last season. Also I do definitely like burke's suggestion about being able to trade cap space, so to speak.

Well first off, your mixing multiple people's posts. tommingthepuck96 said that about the little plays. Not that I completely disagree with him, though saying only datsyuk makes them better may be a bit of a stretch, but he is up there. (Note saying only datsyuk makes them better doesn't mean flip is better than anyone else). Next, try reading more thoroughly. I only even bring up that "stat" because other people have earlier and now it has flipped on them. I find that amusing which is why I said it. If you read, you'd have known this. Also, (this something that requires more reading, so maybe I should excuse you for your ignorance) the argument over ES points is because you can't compare all points as Filppula doesn't play on the PP. Hudler does. And seeing that goals are easier to come by on the PP (anyone disagree with that?), when comparing Hudler's and Filppula's stats, the difference must be taken out. Read: normalization. That said, your analogy sucks and doesn't apply at all. It doesn't even come close. It's also absolutely hysterical that you said I used it as a STAPLE of my argument. Somehow thinking it's a staple of my argument because I mentioned it by-the-way is ludicrous. Talk about straw man arguments. FURTHERMORE, your conclusion was made before I said what you claimed your conclusion was based of off! How does that work? Can you tell the future? So in lieu of this and that fact that the little plays thing is not an objective fact I have no doubts in saying that I am in fact, completely correct about what I said about your conclusions and how/why you make them. In an ending note if your only posts in my thread are discussing the validity of your insults and your unable to discuss the topic at hand, free free to not come back. I'd be more than happy to take it to PM though as this is so easy it's fun.

Make a conslusion like that just because someone might disagree with you about a player? Yeah. That's legit. No one is saying throw statistics out the window, but it's not the end all be all like some people would have you believe. But if you want to have fun with stats, right now, it takes Flip 27.6 ES minutes to get 1 ES point, and it takes Hudler 28.2. Omg trade Hudler!

Hey guess what, Flip now has more ES points than Zetterberg.

I don't want to move to the east.

Nah, he'd walk off the ice if we go 3 shifts w/o scoring a goal.

Listen to this. Whats to stop chris chelios from breaking his sticks and returning to the bench over and over again while he builds a wall on the ice that prevents the puck from getting in our zone. That we we won't need goaltenders. thoughts?

1-5. Get motivated. That's the only thing they need. (Maybe goaltending is a valid point..)

Holy s*** it's not just about skill vs enforcer. I just said that. I go back to what I said earlier about comprehension. sureWhyNot, I'm not sure about what I said that set you off or what you thought I was saying. Someone said that Downey makes the team play motivated and really well, which is obviously false as we lost 8-2 with him in the lineup. I'm not saying he's a negative or anything, absolutely not (unless he gets in a stupid fight but he does seems smart in that respect) but he doesn't make the team play better or more motivated. I mentioned the team's record with Downey in it because he asked. I wasn't equating success or lack thereof to downey being in the lineup. I don't think any reasonable person can actually place an relevance in the PPG of someone who has played 4 games. Lets go back to the good old brunnstrom theory(sp?). I don't think anyone was thinking he would be a 246 goal scorer just because he got a hattrick his first NHL game. You need at least 15 games before you can take any heed in PPG. What numbers say he deserves a top 12 spot? He's played four games, he doesn't have any (meaningful) numbers. When he plays 15 games this season tell me about his numbers. That is, if he manages to play that many games.

It has nothing to do with what we can or cannot afford. Absolutely we can afford to have downey in, but we have other players that bring more than downey which get the spot. Obviously I'm not the only one who thinks this, which is why downey has only palyed 4 NHL games this season and only when other players have been injured. There are a lot of things the wings COULD afford and still be better than msot, but why do it if we can't be our best? The wings assemble the best team they can when downey is out of the lineup. Don't tell me Downey does something special to our team because we just lost 8-2 with in in the line up, and not only that but scoring a goal. Downey doesn't make our players play any better. All four games he's been in would have gone the exact same with if he was not in. We'd still be 2-2 in the games he has played in. Other teams dress enforcers because they don't have any other players to fill that void. I'm not saying other teams can afford to have an enforcer more than the wings, I'm saying the wings can afford NOT to, where other teams can't. And obviously the wings do have a different perspective than most other teams which plays a part. It's not just about "having a scorer" or scoring goals, it's about everything a player can possibly bring. Downey is a great fighter, but he does NOTHING else. He can't grind on the boards, most of the time he's getting hit, and when he tries to deliver a hit he misses.

What does this imply: ?

Neither are lazy. I forget the specifics and what game it was, but I remember maltby was forchecking and he was keeping the puck in their zone all by himself for about 20 seconds working his ass off against 3 players. The crowd cheered for him as he skated off the ice. Draper and Maltby bring calm, leadership and experience, extremely important qualities only one other can provide the same level of: Lidstrom. You think there might be a reason Draper wears the A on his jersey? Hm, I wonder.

Because they're not half as deep as the Wings? Seriously it's like people here are so blinded by their rage over someone not thinking enforcers are the most important players in the NHL they don't think about what others are saying. Downey is a great guy, but the fact is he doesn't deserve a roster spot over the people we have now. Draper brings more, even maltby brings more (than downey, not ALL enforcers). If we didn't have draper/maltby/heml/leino, then you know what, I'd love to have a downey type player. The wings massive depth negates having downey in their lineup in a day to day basis. If I'm so wrong, how come downey hasn't played 66 games in the NHL this season? I didn't say they're lieing. Read. Comprehend. If you can't do those things, take a break, go to school and take a class on it.

With respect, of course they're going to say the like him in the lineup. Do you really think they'd say "No, downey doesn't really bring anything, he's pretty worthless." I'm not saying they do think that but if they do think that, they're still going to say they like him on the team. The player's testimonies here don't really mean anything to me.

Good point.

Hell yeah. If only Downey played in last nights game, I'm sure the wings would have played really well and been totally motivated. Oh wait... (2 wins and 2 losses this season, with downey)