Z and D for the C

I think his point was that if Ken Holland and the Wings organization say you have some major potential, there is probably a million percent chance you have some major potential.

Earlier this season osgood was giving up soft goals, but he also wasn't making any big saves. Last night he let in some soft goals but he also seemed to have made some big saves (I didn't watch the game, going by the highlights). It does seem he has improved the past couple games but that isn't the first time we've heard that. I'd rather have a 100% osgood than a 100% conklin so I say we give osgood the next few games and see how he does.

If we sign hossa, then Huds is more valuable. If we don't sign Hossa, than (although it's irrelevant as we'll be able to have both anyway) Franzen would be more valuable.

Wow, you're able to belittle someone you're arguing against. That's like- so totally impressive!! Apart from a goal, when is the last time franzen made some amazing play? Like I've said, franzen is an above average goal scorer who had a very impressive playoffs last year. That's it. He doesn't make plays, and he doesn't kill penalties. I think I've left something relatively big out from my opinion of Franzen. He's a great player absolutely, and I would hate to lose him and I'm not saying he sucks, he'd just be misplaced if we had both him and hossa. If we could have a top six of: Zetterberg Datsyuk Franzen Leino Flip Hossa That would be awesome, I just think Hossa and Franzen on the same line suck because I just see Franzen as a waste of a line slot as he doesn't do very much in terms of playmaking. He would work great with Z&D because he wouldn't HAVE to do very much but stand in front of the net but on the second line I think all three players would need to be able to make plays, franzen finishes plays, he doesn't MAKE plays. Hossa does both, so if he have hossa I think franzen is a waste on that line. If we can't get Hossa, then I'd love to be able to keep franzen. Hate on filppula all you want, but no one can deny that he holds on to the puck extremely well in the zone. He has a great hands (as good as hudler's at least), he just needs to gain a bit of confidence. You see quite a few opportunities where he could of and should have shot the puck but makes the pass instead, it was the same with hudler last year. That's why I say Flip has a great toolset, he just needs to gain the experience of how to use them, something he'll gain in time and he'll be an amazing investment. As for my defense of my view that flip WILL, IN TIME be better than franzen, read my other post: Also, he's a much better playmaker with 20 assists to Franzen's 12. Is that an an area of the game? (<- passing) Flip has more even strength points than franzen, and is better defensively, represented by the fact that he has more than twice as much PK time as Franzen. And here is a nice little factoid: Filppula is behind only Z, Pav and Hossa in even strength scoring I wasn't comparing datsyuk to flip, no idea where you got that.

Did you watch ANY videos I linked? Hands of STONE? I don't like saying things like this, but that really is the dumbest thing I've ever read on this website. Flip's hands are better than even hudlers. And why do you keep bringing up his stats as though it's some end all be all? This is flip's third full season as a wing, his first season as better than franzen's first, his second was better than franzen's second, and his third looks like it's going to be better than franzen's third.

Do you read? Where did I say ALL his goals are tip ins? I said half of his goals in the playoffs were tip ins against an avalanche team that couldn't win a game against my old high school's team. And I'm talking about the past 20 games (which is why I said in the past 20 games) not the entire season. Tell pavel datsyuk 10 assists isn't as good as 10 goals. Anyone remember who that guy is? You obviously don't. Do you really think Franzen is going to make only a third of what Flip is making next year? Why even bring that up... And did I seriously just get called a hater by someone who says these things? http://www.letsgowings.com/forums/index.ph...p;#entry1539863 http://www.letsgowings.com/forums/index.ph...p;#entry1539854 http://www.letsgowings.com/forums/index.ph...p;#entry1534705 I mean, really?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=880nfNNMYcU So those were all accidents? Maybe he tripped on the pittsburgh goal. Don't have time to watch this but I'm sure it showcases some of flip's potential:

He scored 50% of his goals from tap ins from Z facing a s*** avalanche team. He's scored 8 goals and 4 assists for 12 points in his past 20 games. Flip has 11. Worth a lot more huh? Like I've said 1000 times before. Franzen is great at scoring goals if he gets a nice pass/opportunity no doubt, but he does nothing past that and doesn't create his own opprotunities (except his one highlight goal this year and against pittsburhg in the playoffs). In a few years, flip is going to be worth more than huds or franzen. Mark my words. Flip shows way more potential than Hudler ever has, that is a fact. Hudler just has some extra offensive instinct, something that flip will gain in time and when he does he is going to be a beast.

During the game against the pens and the stanley cup finals the wings got a lot of really awesome compliments...I don't know where these things come from. It's kind of annoying.

Franzen at 4 mil is crap. He's so overrated. If his predictions come true and he signs before Hossa I'll be extremely disappointed because that'll mean losing flip to keep hossa and that is no where near worth it. I'll take Hossa/flip before hossa/franzen all day long.

I think it might have something to do with the injuries..maybe not though. Maybe babs just finally realized that Z doesn't produce as much as normal unless he's with datsyuk. But I wouldn't be surprised to see them split up again. I don't think it will happened, but I wouldn't be surprised.

That is what I was thinking earlier in the season. Hossa I think does best when he is the "main guy" on his line. When he was with datsyuk or Z it seemed he was the second guy which doesn't suit him. ZDH Leino Hossa Flip That is the best top 2 lines in the league.

^ If Hossa is "just" an upgraded flip, what happens when flip comes into him own? (and you know he will) I'm sure he won't be as amazing as hossa, but he'll be better than hudler.

The only issue being $$, if someone wanted to fund it, I would seriously consider it.

I've always been a lilja fan and he's getting even better. he's had a great season.

LOL and saying just "PWNED" is a really great argument too..hahahaha. Man should I be taking notes from your posts?!?! And I've been on the record for a while now, I needn't repeat myself. Read what I've said again if need be.

Um... ... Why don't you just run along..

I'm not going so much by nhl season/nhl experience, that's not the key, but just the fact that he was called up when he was younger is a testament to the fact that hudler has more experience and/or developed at a younger age/developed quicker. So I'm not saying Hudler's 12 games in 2003 was such a huge developmental advantage. Their date of birth has little to do with it. It's not like everyone has the exact same development growing up. Maybe hudler started playing at a younger age. Zetterberg and Hossa are one year apart, and they're equal in skill but Hossa came into the league much earlier. I'm not saying because Hudler is 75 days older or whatever it is he is more developed. You're looking at this way too linearly. Case in point not all players progress at the same rate. Our entire team is the epitome of this. Having said that, it's my belief that Flip has much more potential than Hudler, but hudler has progressed quicker than Flip but in a few years flip will be the better player.

Anyway back to the original topic, isn't hossa not even able to sign until a certain date? Could hossa sign right now even if he wanted to?

It really does show that we can turn it on and off nearly at will. Our play even today may not be enough for the stanley cup finals, but it's enough for the first round and by the time we get that far we'll be there for sure

Hasn't flip spent most of the year on the third line? (serious question, I don't know). To me it only seems that Flip has played with Hossa on the second line the past 5-10 games. Anyway just the way flip plays makes me think (keyword there, no stats to back this up) that he'll be a better investment for the years to come. Flip holds on to the puck so strongly in the zone, and he's shown his offensive brilliance occasionally that is bound to come out some time. Look at the goal in the SCF he had. Flip has huge amounts of talent (I see soo much Datsyuk/Zetterberg/Hossa in him, more than anyone else), and is far from peaking. Hudler is the better offensive player today, but he is just about playing the best hockey he'll play (which is very good, don't get me wrong) Also consider hudler's first NHL season was in 03, flip's in 06, and they're both the same age. Hudler has more experience, and once flip gains that same experience he'll shine way more than Hudler ever has.

Huds is better than flip now, but in 3 or 4 years, I think flip will be the better player.

Hudler gets all the PP time. Huds has 158 minutes of power play time to flip's 28. Huds has 22 ever strength points, flip has 25.

Flip > Hudler, at the same price. Flip just needs a chance, and he's not puny.

If Hossa signs a long term deal here soon, I'm get a hossa tattoo on my ass.