StormJH1

I think a lot of people are just turning this into a beauty paegent, and are conflicted as to how you handle a RUSSIAN player (which is not the same as talking about a Swede, Fin, etc., in terms of perceptions), in addition to a very private and complex personality like Sergei Fedorov. I respect that Wings fans are passionate about this issue enough that they see this organization as a family, or at least as something bigger than a bunch of hired mercenaries who come here to make money and win Cups, and nothing else. I agree that there is something to valued in a player exhibiting leadership and courage (like an Yzerman) or class and dependability (like a Lidstrom) over players who had similar statistical accomplishments but did not espouse those traits. But the way I see it, the only real reason people don't want Fedorov's name up there is b/c of what they think it would or would not mean to Sergei Fedorov. And honestly, I just don't find that question very interesting. I'm much more interested in what Fedorov meant to ME as a fan, as well as to this organization. I wasn't thrilled with Sergei in '98, but he did come back, after all, and win that Cup with us. And while I was upset that he left the team in 2003, that doesn't change my appreciation for the 12 years and 3 Cups he did contribute to us. In this day and age, if that isn't enough of a contribution, I don't know what is. There's plenty of "classy" and respected players all around the league that get passed around from team to team at the end of their careers...you're telling me none of those guys should ever have their numbers retired anywhere?

I've never really been sure how I feel about the switch. I guess you could just as easily argue that most "defining" jersey for your franchise is the one with the colors of your team. All the NHL did, then, was to make it like it is in football, where the Wings wear their color at home, just like the Lions wear blue, Wolverines wear navy blue, or Cardinals wear red at home. The flip side would be that if you're a frequently attendee of games, every team that visits you is always wearing the same color, which is kinda lame. I've always prefered the red jersey to the white one because "red" is part of the team name and the color is as powerful as the Winged Wheel to me.

We did NOT lose that playoff series because of Legace. We lost it because scorers like Pavel Datsyuk never showed up for the Playoffs until the decent run in 2007. Likewise, we did NOT lose the 2001 series to the Kings because of Osgood. The only thing I hate about being a Wings fan is how people instinctively run the goaltender out of town every year our team of all-stars underacheives. That said, I don't know how anybody feels that comfortable about our goaltending situation heading into this year's playoffs. Not just goaltending, but our overall defensive performance. The only real rationale for Osgood to succeed is, "Hey, he's done it before". But you could've said the same thing about 1998 for, well, every year after 1998. I pulled out my three Hockeytown DVD's a few weeks back for and was watching the 1998 one...it was 11 years ago, and yet I could almost remember every goal scored. But what I had forgotten through my rose-colored lenses was how badly Osgood actually played for most of that Playoffs. The moral of the story is that the Wings recent championships have never been about elite goaltending--they're about competent goaltending, all-around team defense and backchecking, and big-time scorers (with an occasional D-Mac or Joey Kocur) stepping up big.

Ha, yeah. CLEARLY, the NASCAR race in Las Vegas is the reason the NHL never expanded to Sin City. (j/k) I thought about this a million different ways, but it usually just leads me back to the fact that there are too many teams. Contraction is a dirty word in sports, and I would hate to do that to fans of the Islanders, Coyotes, Predators, etc., but honestly, if those teams relocate anyway, why is that any better than just contracting the team? The league is spread too thin. People don't want to talk about contraction b/c it's like a sign of weakness, but I maintain that this was always predominantly a regional game, and getting it back to the number of teams it had just 20 years ago could ultimately prevent the league from having multiple teams losing serious money. It would also improve the quality of the product. Imagine if every team in the league sent their 4th line to the minors and had their 3rd line as the "worst line" on the team. If 2-4 teams were contracted, this would essentially be the effect. Each team would add several skill players through a dispersal draft, too. And if you didn't have three teams in California, two in New York, and random teams in places where only Frost Belt transplants care about hockey, I'd have to think attendance would be better, on average.

Yeah, I recall that he bugged out a few times, and was resurrected from the dead (well, Europe) to come play for PIT. Then he left again. But he was always a dominant scorer, he just didn't tend to play on high-profile teams (PIT was still pretty bad when he was there, too).

Hahaha. If only everybody formed their opinions and knowledge of what it's like to live in Detroit off of Home Improvement episodes, maybe D-Town would have a much better reputation than it does. My understanding is that it has been illegal in MI as long as I can remember. It was very recently legalized in Minnesota, where I live now. But that has arguably made the problem worse, as these scalping websites buy up all the tickets for everything from sporting events to Hannah Montana concerts, and then sell them back at a marked-up value. Personally, I don't know how I feel about the issue.

Not to turn this into a total pro-Sergei/anti-Sergei flame war, but for the people still peed off about the 1998 contract dispute...really? Did you stop rooting for the Red Wings from 1998-2003 because they brought back a "traitor". Did you pretend not to be happy when he gave your organization another half dozen seasons or so and helped win a 3rd Stanley Cup? And for the millionth time, wasn't that "money he got from Anaheim" equal to or less than the money he could've gotten here? It wasn't about money. It was about us sneaking over an 18-year kid from Russia in the dying days of the Cold War, and him not experiencing any other team or home city for over a decade. Plus, he gets dumped by one of the world's hottest women (well, 16-year girl) in favor of Pavel Bure and/or Enrique Iglesias. And for all that, not only do you rip him for wanting a "change of scenery", but some of you want to keep his number out of the rafters or even keep him out of the Hall of Fame. Amazing.

I live in Minnesota and know how the Wild play. That game was one of the best games the Wild have played all year, and it's not Howard's fault. Jimmy certainly didn't do much to make himself look good, but the defense in the first two periods of that game was atrocious. Yes, the Wings did do their patented "kick" in the 3rd period, but you also have to understand that Lemaire's Wild teams will always do a turtle duck in the 3rd (with the lead) and allow themselves to get outshot with perimeter chances. And like the guy above me said: Not like Osgood hasn't had games much, much worse than that this year!

Wow, I'm a little surprised by how optimistic people are about Filppula here. http://hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.ph...E&pid=64511 I mean, the most the guy scored at ANY level since 2003 was 20 goals. I'd also be cautious about relying on assists on a talented team like the Wings. You can find your way into a decent number of assists just by playing alongside talented scorers on a hot streak. Filppula just looks soft to me. I did think he played well in the '08 Playoffs, but I'm not convinced that Leino, Helm, or any number of quality finesse/grinder prospects in our organization could do his job for about 1/3 of the price. It's not the big contracts that really kill you with the salary cap...it's a collection of smaller overpriced ones that you can't move that really do you in. Keeping a core group of Datsyuk, Hank, and Hossa together will make this a top-level team for years, because I have the confidence in our organization to know that they will develop or find quality role players to fill in the other lines, even if they only have around room for entry-level contracts.

Am I reading the Salary Chart right? It has been widely reported (Rotoworld, etc.) that the Wings got a great deal for Zetterberg because they only have to pay him "just over $6 million a year." But if the LGW chart is accurate, he's actually making 7.4 per year, until it goes up to around 7.7 per year (presumably because of the "nobody makes more than Lidstrom rule"). The only reason it averages out to just over 6 million is because his salary dips considerably between 2018 and 2021, at which point, who even knows if there's an NHL, let alone a salary cap. I only ask because because some people have been saying that Hank's deal makes signing Hossa "more likely", but if you look at the yearly breakdown, I'm thinking that's not actually the case.

Well, if they sign Hossa, you'll get your wish out of necessity, because the only way to do it will be to have many of your bottom 6 forwards and bottom 2 defensemen be on rookie contracts. But realize: (a) Part of the reason the Red Wings have been so successful (pre- and post-lockout) is that they haven't been forced to play their young players before they're ready (like LA, Chicago, Minnesota, Edmonton, etc.); (b) Signing Hossa in the first place was a longshot, so I worry about people getting their hopes up if it doesn't go through; and © the only reason any of this is even possible is the fact that we're one of the VERY few reputable teams in this league that doesn't have to pay a goaltender any more than $1.5 million. Seriously, having an Osgood or Conklin as opposed to Kiprusoff, Lundquist, or Luongo is pretty much the equivalent of getting a "free bonus superstar" in the salary cap era! From a long-term perspective, Osgood will very soon need to be replaced (or retire) and we'll either be playing young goaltenders or ones that don't demand a ton of money. Could work, but could also be a problem.

Me too! I'm a transplant in Minneapolis born and raised in Detroit, and Stoney & Wojo (along with detnews.com) are my only life lines to what's going on in the city. That's absolutely devastating and it will make it much harder for me to follow the wings out-of-market.

Yeah, playing Conklin definately makes more sense. Nostalgia is nice, but I don't see much value in having Osgood's Winter Classic marked by exiting between the 1st and 2nd periods due to injury, and proceeding to miss another month or two afterwards. Three Stanley Cup wins are all the nostalgia Osgood needs.

Wow, I guess "Zune" is an appropriate screen name for you, since your entire argument froze up and crashed right from the get-go. I don't an Avalanche fan circa 1997 would've gone as negative on some of the Red Wings as you just did on Lidstrom. The guy is multiple Norris winner and sure-fire H of F'er...clearly it's not only the delusions of Red Wings fans that have led to his reputation. The argument that "we've never known how good the Wings could be without Lidstrom, ergo, he probably isn't that important is absurd." Aside from the fact that Lidstrom WAS injured down the stretch against Colorado last season, and the Wings DID struggle, what team are you watching? I'm not even sure that someone demanding that their defenseman scores "40 goals" has even been watching the NHL since Paul Coffey played for the Oilers. And I don't know where this notion that Lidstrom isn't a great offensive defenseman comes from, exactly. Watch a hockey team like the Minnesota Wild, as I'm forced to do nowadays on a pretty regular basis, and you'll appreciate why the Wings have such a superior powerplay to other teams in the league. I don't care if it's Franzen, Holmstrom, or Dino Freakin' Ciccarelli cleaning up garbage on the doorstep--that powerplay is ENTIRELY focused on getting the puck to Lidstrom at the point, so that he can either shoot or draw enough attention to free up Datsyuk or Zetterberg on the boards. Jeez.

That's an awesome (and sad) avatar picture. I'm a diehard Wings fan transplanted to Minnesota, but had I grown up in Minnesota, that totally would've been me refusing to leave the last game while everyone else left.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...751C0A96E958260 I understand why some fans never forgave him for that, but I don't agree with it. What I don't get is why the story ends there. Yeah, there was a holdout, and it was ugly (even if Fedorov did deserve better). But he did come back, the team did win the '98 Cup, and I really don't know what he did from 1999-2003 to further qualify as a "prima donna". Just because he "left" in 2003 doesn't mean it was "disrespectful" to the Wings. Sergei was just a kid when he was drafted in the 4th round, and then they plucked him from the Goodwill Games. He lived and played in Detroit for 13 seasons, but he never got say "I want to play there, or I'd like to live this part of the U.S." He also went through a very secretive and what was probably an extremely painful divorce [You try going to bed with Anna Kournikova for several years, lose it, and then come out 100% sane...seriously!] I think that Detroiters are very vain as hockey fans and need to feel like their players appreciate them more than they appreciate their players. But that doesn't change the fact that Sergei deserves to be up in the rafters. [Q: Would he be the first Russian to have their number retired? I'm not recalling any others right now]

It has to work both ways. People talk about how you can't compare current numbers to guys like Howe, Lindsay, etc. b/c of how hard it was to play in that era. What about how it was for Fedorov? You're talking about (along with perhaps Mogilny and Bure, neither of which prolonged their stardom as long or accomplished as much as Fedorov) one of the first Russian stars to succeed in the NHL while the Cold War was still thawing and the xenophopic good ole boy network that hated commies and anything not from North America cheap shotted him behind plays. Fedorov's success was a key event in the complete globalization of the NHL. Without Fedorov, the Red Wings were a one-man show, and Yzerman was just one of a handful of offensively-gifted players around the league that didn't play for a winner. It wasn't until Fedorov got here and became a star (and excellent 2-way player in his own right) that Yzerman was able to become the complete player that made him a legend. Long before Shanny was added as the "missing piece" that helped us win a Cup, Fedorov was the missing piece that took us from perennial loser to Western Conference powerhouse. 12 or 13 years with one team in the modern NHL is an ETERNITY. Three Cups is more than half of the franchises in the NHL will EVER see. Yet that resume isn't good enough for you because you don't like Sergei personally. Amazing. By the way, he didn't leave for less money because he hated Detroit, he left (in large part) because he was secretly married to an underage Russian sex goddess, before Pavel Bure and like 20 other guy entered the picture and the marriage broke apart. He wanted a fresh start...big frigging deal. I didn't realize that a few years of Fedorov playing in Anaheim, Columbus, and Washington were enough to ruin the memories of three Stanley Cups for you. Jeez.

There are have 30 teams (or close to it) during the Wings' current run of 4 Cups in 11 years. During the "dynasty" of the 50's, there were only 6. Not to mention you didn't have rampant free agency at the time, and keeping a roster together was MUCH easier from year to year. No offense to the players of the 50's, but what the Wings have done since 1997 has been far more difficult and remarkable than the teams of the 50's. So, looking at it that way, I think that the current generation of Wings great should receive equal or greater representation in the rafters. Explain to me how Fedorov leaving FA is any different than Shanahan leaving via FA? Both of them wanted more money than the team was willing or able to offer, and wanted a change of scenery. That doesn't make him traitors. The difference, of course, is that Fedorov is Russian. He was also a more valuable Red Wing over a longer period of time than Shanahan was. But you could argue that both belong in the rafters. (But Fedorov first)

While you're certainly not alone in having that perspective on the value of enforcers, the idea that having a player like Downey "insulates" you from cheap shots and injuries is misguided and antiquated. Ask the Minnesota Wild how safe they feel under the "security blanket" of Derek Boogaard (arguably the most feared goon in the league), not to mention Todd Fedoruk and Chris Simon in 07-08. People took cheap shots (and injured) Kim Johnsson and Mikko Koivu. And when they got the playoffs against Colorado, none of the dirty players on the Avs were man enough to drop the gloves with any of the Minnesota goons, which made retribution impossible without taking an instigator penalty/suspension. The Wings have proven that you need tough players that can also play the game--like a Shanahan, McCarty (of yesterday), etc. There may be other reason for having goons (fun factor, team motivation, revenge, etc.), but it's not a viable or necessary strategy in today's NHL.

Hasek should be considered among the Top 5 of all time. But it's so difficult to compare goalies across different leagues, countries, eras, and equipment that it's almost pointless to talk about #2 vs. #3, or so on. I think a lot of people struggle with Hasek as one of the all-time greats b/c (like Tretiak), probably his most defining moment was not in an NHL game--it was the 1998 Nagano Olympics. North Americans consider those games a failure because it was embarassing for the NHL, U.S., and Canada, but that was a pivotal moment in the (complete) internationalization of the sport. Hasek taking Jagr and a handful of non-NHL players and beating virtual all-star teams stocked with NHL'ers from other countries was a MUCH more significant acheivement than his winning the Cup with a loaded Red Wings team in 2002. And people tend to overlook this because, at the time, he was the equivalent of today's Roberto Luongo...a very good goalie to amazing regular season things (well and almost winning a Cup in '99) with a very average Sabres team. But Hasek is also overrated from the standpoint that he NEEDED to be as athletically and acrobatically gifted as he was to compensate for the fact that he was erratic, and didn't have the consistency and positioning of Brodeur, Roy, and some of the all-time greats. It's true that Hasek could make impossible saves from positions that perhaps no other goalie in history ever could or will. But Roy or Brodeur in the same game might have made a much more boring (but equally effective) save, that wouldn't have played as well on SportsCenter. That's why evaluating goalies is so impossible, from a historical standpoint. But based on his hardware, international importance, and sheer skill, yeah, he's Top 5 for sure.

Oh no! Without the People Mover, how will we shuttle suburbanites from Oakland and Macomb counties in to see the games?! Wait...nevermind, I just remembered that the People Mover goes in a stupid circle downtown.

I understand your rationale for not wanting to touch it if you didn't "earn" it. But my way of looking at it is that if you've put yourself in a position where you're on the ice with the Detroit Red Wings and one of them offers you the opportunity to hoist the Stanley Cup, I think you do it. Vladimir Konstantinov didn't earn the "minimum requirements" to have his name on the cup in 1997-98, but the Red Wings wanted him to touch it and be a part of the ceremony. Obviously, Justin Abelkader is nowhere near as important as Konstantinov was, but I think lots of people get to hold or touch the Cup all year anyway, so if you can be one of them, go ahead!

Haha, I'm a Wings fan, but I moved and now live in Minnesota...people here are actually happy about this signing. I guess when you let Rolston and Demitra walk, what choice do you have? And to answer your question, yes, MN fans watch ONLY their own team's games. As in, they have no idea what kind of talent other teams around the league have, so they think guys like PMB (Pierre-Marc Bouchard) should actually be making twice as much as guys like Franzen or even Filppula probably deserve.

Haha, Red Wings fans could start by actually ATTENDING Red Wings games. But the more stuff like this happens, the more complacent we'll get...

"Meh" is probably the best response, but I live in Minnesota now and thought it was interesting. Bergeron is a train wreck on defense, and Minnesota's style kills offensive defenseman. So yea, this will be more or less irrelevant