thedisappearer

I never said that, and you know it. You paraded out how he's second in shoots, I pointed out his % is horrid. If you are making the defense that injuries have forced him to take a larger role that no one intended, I can accept that. But I'm still allowed to complain about a second line forward who gets plenty of PP time who is shooting less than 5% and turns the puck over like it *may* cause cancer. He's not the cause of the Wing's ills, but he's sure a prominent symptom.

Zets has twice the 30 goals season as Joe Thornton, and one of them was a 40 goal season. Thornton is a top ten forward. So, maybe goals alone aren't what make a top 10 forward.

Hey man, eff you for even suggesting watching Kopey on a PP unit. WTF has this board sunk to when this gets suggested? WHO WILL THINK ABOUT THE CHILDREN?!?!?!?!?!?!

Sorry, his face-off percentage is too low...

I hope it does, but I'mnot holding my breath. Carman, on the other hand, thinks it's evidence he's a Hall of Famer.

Umm, our shut-down forward isn't Zetterberg. It's the forward with the Selkes. Just saying. And Lids had a scrotal injury. His ******* balls were broke.

But he spent time on the second line and the PP *before* the injuries. Hey, I trust Babcock. But... Samuellson...

So shooting percentage only matters if you get paid a lot. Got it. Look, I'm not saying he isn't trying- he is, and he's trying hard... maybe too hard. Look at all the shots and the lack of goals. If you want to say his production is fair given his salary, fine. I'm saying his production doesn't justify his line. He's not doing anything on the second line. He's painful on the PP. Whatever he brings to the table doesn't fit with Dats or Homer (I could see the Bert-Homer FAIL a mile away...). Basically, he's the 2009 Samuellson. Tries hard, shows glimpses, but gets time due to Babcock liking him.

Only if you think one lone Cup makes you superior.

No, you're cherry picking numbers and ignoring the ones that show he's not playing like a top 6 forward. And i find it funny you defended Crosby in the hat trick thread by pointing to his shooting percentage.

Is he living in Rod Langway's basement?

Or... because you feel you have a more informed and legitimate opinion, you twist the numbers to back you up.

Retards. AWESOME.

Settle down, killer. I'm not saying Bertuzzi is the cause of anything. I'm just saying his performance has been pitiful this year. I don't care what his paycheck is, I care that his performance is on par with what line he's playing on. And with Bertuzzi, it's not. Hell, the whole second PP unit is god awful.

I'm pretty sure if we have another spirited enforcer debate, talk about how Ozzie sucks, Fedorov's number should be in the rafters, and whine the Crosby is in commercials, everything will be *just* right.

Chances are, when you are shooting 4.3%, you are just softly tossing shots on net from the outside. Non-scoring forwards on the team are shooting better. This is a fact.

Everybody settle down, GMR is super cereal.

People will give up quality players for the Red Wings unwanted players. Fact.

Ok. Flip side- his shooting percentage is 4.3%. The only two forwards he's ahead of are Eaves and May. And then factor in his posts and misses.

1. There wasn't too much defense in the late 80's, early 90's. 2. The Rafs bashing thread is still on the first page. 3. You can't win if you don't score... and we don't. 4. What defensive FA did we lose last off-season? I guess you could argue Hossa, but that's pretty weak. This is the same exact def group as last year, minus Lilja, who was out last year as well.

Bertuzzi and Homer on the same line are killing Dats. He has literally nothing to do out there. He's playing with two statues. I can give Homer a break because at least he brings something to the PP, but Bertuzzi... OMFG.

Looked to me like it was covered, but a Wing knocked it out of Kipper's glove. Either way, the ref did wave the play dead before the puck was in so I can live with it. That first call though...

Well, I'd think if he could do them effectively, he would. Those things you mentioned are things he just doesn't do very well, and doing those things is not why he was signed. I'm not saying he's playing well, but he was brought here to play an up tempo, offensive game which he did effectively. Now that we are a more defensive team, his strengths are negated and his weaknesses more glaring. Rafs play, though is just a symptom of Detroit's changed style of play.

I have no idea how you can take a post where I say "which he did very well" and ask if I am saying he sucked.

Agreed. I'm not sure how that happened. I guess captaining the Rangers to end the drought?