Nev

Yeah, that Man Shack sure is cool - the stalls with the pic of the '97 cup win is awesome.

Interesting - and for 2 quid a game for me a bargain. But I do wonder about how legal it is....

Pardon me for having an opinion and daring to express it on a discussion forum. The "no-one is allowed to disagree with Ken Holland" line is getting real old this week. I actually agree for Helm, but not for Leino. Leino is 25 and has shown he is NHL-ready. He can play those 6-8 minutes, get comfortable with the NHL game and with his team-mates and be ready to jump up a line or 3 as injuries and form offer the opportunity, so that next season when he will have a much greater role he is already part of the team. But yes, Helm is better off playing 20 minutes a night in GR in all situations - even if he is more deserving of a spot on the team than Maltby

Irrelevant I would hope Draper would be mature enough and proffesional enough to accept that his friends time was up in Detroit. All good things come to an end - Stevie Y, Shanny both had to move on eventually and both are an example of clinging on too long when the bell is tolling. I'll flip that one back at you - who would help the team the most? Leino/Helm or Maltby?

Look, I actually agree with the main thrust of your post which may be summed up as "Ken Holland knows what he's doing", but in case its escaped your attention, this is a discussion forum! People come here to talk about the wings, express their opinion etc. Except, it seems, if you want to disagree with a decision by Wings management. And except if you've never played proffesional hockey (not yours that one). Wouldn't leave us much to talk about would it? Having said that, this "fighter vs no-fighter" argument is getting real old already and the season hasn't even begun. I sense that this will be 2008-2009's Hasek vs Osgood...

How far do you push loyalty before it starts hurting the team? Malts has always had 3 great qualities 1) His skating - but as plenty here have pointed out he has lost a step the last couple of years 2) His agitating - alas, this has dried up the last few years, despire being his one unique skill that no-one else on the wings roster has 3) His penalty killing. Well, right now we have Datsyuk, Hossa, Zetterberg, Franzen, Filpulla, Cleary and Draper who are all adept at killing penalties, so Malts would not be missed. Look, he's been a great servant of Detroit but can anyone here honestly say he deserves a roster spot ahead of Leino (especially) and Helm?

Awesome stuff. Interesting to see how nearly early player is drinking fluids once they've been given the cup (rehydrating themselves before they *really* get stuck into liquid refreshment? ) Also Hasek gliding towards the mob - after the cameramen had got there. You're a lucky man to have been there to witness that.

You're mistaking the Hart Trophy for the being the "best player" Trophy. It isn't, its the "most valuable player" trophy. And that means that usually (but not always) it goes to a player on an average or above-average team who has had an career year and helped that team to an above-average or great season. It rarely goes to the best player inthe NHL. And since the Wings have been at the top of the standings every single year for the last 15 years, and have had a loaded roster to boot, its very hard for a Redwing to win it - note that when Sergei Fedorov won it, it was the year that Yzerman was injured. He has exactly the same year and Yzerman is fit all year, I'm certain he wouldn't have won it. Perhaps a better argument could be made for him not winning the Lester B Pearson trophy since that is meant to go to the best player. The other thing to note is Nicks lopsided career haul. Has he really been that much better in the 2nd half of his career than the 1st? I think not - certainly not stats wise. He was 2nd in the Calder Trophy his rookie year, was an all-star by '96, yet his first Norris wasn't till 2001. In fact, I am absolutely certain that his run of Norris's has something of the Return of the King about it. The voters realise he was unfairly ignored for a decade and have been heaping awards on him ever since (not that he hasn't deserved them mind)

But still playing 4th line minutes....

Thing is, as the wings have said, Abdelkader and Helm, whilst good enough to play in the NHL right now are better off playing 20 minutes a night in GR than 5-10 minutes a night in Detroit. They will still play in the NHL this season as they will be called up for injury replacements. They will get their chance next season - Maltby and McCarty are on their last legs, and not all of Sammy/Huds/Franzen/Hossa will be back.

I found Babcocks comments on Leino most interesting - he's talking about him in exactly the same terms as he's talked about Hudler the last 2 years "does he want to be an NHL player?" etc. And its pretty obvious that he wants Helm in the line-up over Leino right now. As for Lilja, for all we know Holland may have signed him and told him there was still a chance he would be traded come October. Still, you gotta think Lebda, Meech or Quincey will be the one gone.

I've actually thought about this quite a bit, as to why no-one has repeated in the last 10 years, and here are my thoughts on the matter '99, Dallas - At that time there were 3 elite teams in the WC, any one of which could have been conference champion each and every year with nothing to seperate them. From '94 to '02 only 3 teams won the Western Conference: Detroit, Dallas and Colorado. Point being, repeating out of the west was VERY difficult at that time '00, New Jersery - the other elite team in the NHL in this period '01 Colorado - Their turn '02, Detroit - our turn. '03, New Jersey - Ooh look, one of the big 4 again '04, Tampa Bay - First time in 9 (NINE) years that one of the Big 4 aren't the champs. TB are a good, well coached team with some star players '06, Carolina - Then the lockout happened, TB couldn't cope with the cap, 3 of the big 4 went into decline, parity came into the leaugue and Carolina had a Cindarella year. '07, Anaheim - Carolina then (as is their way) went back to being an ugly sister. Did anyone expect them to repeat? Anyone? Bueller? Anyone? '08, Detroit - We all know what happened after the Ducks won the cup (muwahahaha) and them being bounced out of the playoffs wasn't really a surprise to anyone. So to summarise - for 4 years there were 4 elite teams battling for the cup every year. To repeat in that situation was near impossible. After that 3 different teams each had a great season, then were unable to cope with the loss of key players the following year. Detroit on the other hand have almost their entire roster intact and have added an elite player to boot.. They are built (and coached) for the playoffs and have no-one in their conferences that scare them like Colorado, Dallas (and to a lesser extent) Anaheim used to. To repeat will still be difficult - injuries, a cinderalla team, or the players tuning out Babcocks hard-ass style can undo them - but nevertheless, I believe that the 08-09 Detroit Redwings have the best chance of repeating of any team since the '98 Wings.

One of Nick's greatest strengths is his ability to shoot the puck without even looking at it - cf the bouncing puck against Nashville, so I'm sure he'll be fine.

To be fair to Thornton, he doesn't need anyone who can score goals - as John Buccigross has been saying for years "Joe Thornton makes his wingers rich". The Cheechoo factor

My first thought also when I saw this trade.

QFT. Still, as long as the old guy at the top is still in charge, its all for naught. Its a terrible thing to say, but Bill Ford Sr is the NFLs Bill Wirtz.

The Veyron is soooo over-rated Still, nice to see what 7 million a year buys you....

"Humility is not a clever man saying he is stupid, or a beautiful woman thinking she is ugly" CS Lewis

Kronner is a long way from being a Norris finalist IMO - much as I have defended him round here * For a start he needs a full, healthy season (that would be 2 back-to-back). His health last season, and his form are no coincidence * He needs to start hitting the net a lot more, and scoring more goals. Probably the biggest weakness in his game * Can a 2nd pairing guy really be considered for a Norris?

"You aren't going to get the same production out of Hossa with Flip centering him ", others have specifically talked about getting Hossa 50, 55 goals. Wrong! Its about winning the Stanley Cup. Did we get the most out of Brett Hull on the '02 team by sticking him on the 4th line with a rookie Datsyuk and Boyd Devereaux? No, but did we win the Stanley Cup? Yes. Was that the objective? Yes. 1) That statement is against the board rules 2) You don't have to have "played the game at a high level" to know that just throwing good players together doesn't always work. Back to the '02 team, why did Brett Hull have the time of his life with Datsyuk and Devereaux and Luc Robitallie look like a fish out of water with Larionov and Holmstrom? When players mesh, its a thing of beauty, but it doesn't always work, and why it does or doesn't work isn't easily definable. Until you put players together, you just don't know. 3) Its a discussion forum. People come here to discuss the Wings. As we say over here "opinions are like arseholes - everyones got one"

I wasn't aware Hossa was here on an ego trip and looking to pad his stats. Cleary I've been labouring under the misunderstandingthat he came here to win a Stanley Cup and had bought into the Redwings team-first policy. My bad. If it were as easy as just throwing together good players then the Selanne-Kariya Avs would have set an NHL record for points and the Rangers would have won the last 10 Stanley Cups. How much better can you make the NHLs best line by replacing one player with another? Best case scenario is that it remains the NHLs best line. When Babs puts out Z-D-H-Lids-Rafa, the opposition coach, players and fans all sh*t themselves. If it ain't broke, why fix it?

lol, Cup heads to Jiri Hudler next - should be fun

I don't like these line combos for several reasons, which are (in no particular order) 1) Z-D-H is arguably the best line in the league with terrific chemisty. Why break up such a dominant line and risk losing that? 2) Hudler has shown the last couple of seasons that he can put up significant numbers whilst playing on the 4th line. Didn't Babs say he had the highest points per minutes played in the league last year? Having a 4th line that is a genuine scoring threat is rare, to say the least. Hudlers ability in that regard is too valuable to waste on the 2nd line, if you know what I mean. I feel sorry for him as Babcocks little *****, but clearly he responds well to being on a short leash. 3) Draper is one of the top 3 face-off men in the league and a dominant defensive forward. Why on Earth would you want him playing on the 4th line? 4) Helm is likely to be scratched/sent to GR if Draper is the 4th line C. He deserves a roster spot. 5) I am something of a Sammy hater, but I really like the 3rd line of him, Draper and Cleary that was put together in the final, certainly was his best play of the post-season. My lines would be Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Holmstrom Hossa-Filpulla-Franzen Cleary-Draper-Sammuelsson Hudler-Helm-McCarty Either way, I am giddy with excitement at our playstation game line-up!

Players have said in the past that Ilitch gets pro-actively involved in making sure that new players get their kids into the best schools and helps them with stuff like finding a house.

He always was reknowned for his tall tales - my favourite was when he got a "fact" about himself in he players guide that is given to all media outlets that he was a backup goalkeeper for the '94 Ireland World Cup team I even heard some commentators tell it like it was real.....