Nev

Man, if that's true, there is absolutely no excuse to not sign him. 3, 4, 5 years, its doesn't matter. $2.5M is peanuts, if Brunner doesn't work out and becomes Leino 2.0 he can still be easily traded/bought out because its such a tiny cap hit. Dammit Kenny, why are you making it so hard to defend you????

Z, Dats, Helm, Anderson, Emmerton makes 5. They want Dats to play on the same line as Z. Emmerton is waiver material. Franzen can play there in a pinch makes 6, but is a winger. Abdelkader has played there, and is just terrible up the middle -because he is also a winger. If you're going to class Cleary as a centre....WTF? Why do you just keep making random stuff up?

No, Pav signed a contract for a team in Russia back in the day, but you were probably only 8 then so you won't remember. Right now no-one knows what Brunner's market value is, so both sides are willing to wait and see what he's offered.

You do realise that we have to have a 23 man roster, right? So you do realise that when everyone is healthy we will have 3 guys riding the pine at any time, right? And that those 3 guys are our back-ups in case of injury/loss of form, right? Of course, we could have 3 guys who were cheaper, buy you do realise that they are likely to be much worse players, right? And that when they have to actually play they'll be worse than what we've got, right? Or we could put 3 kids on the bench and waste away their development years by not actually playing them, but I'm sure this forum would be OK with that, right?

The thing is, Sammy is and always has been a "professional" hockey player. And by that, I mean his job, that he makes a living by, is playing hockey. He's not the kind of guy who plays for the love of the game and he never has been and he's always been very clear about that. When he signed for Vancouver, he was brutally honest about, it he said quite clearly and without embaressment that it was because they offered the most money. Its one of the things I've always liked about him, his brutally honest interviews. He doesn't deal in cliches and empty platitudes, he tells it exactly how he thinks *points at sig*. Its a job first and foremost to him, and he feels no loyalty to the team, the fans or the city. Like I say, I kinda admire him for it. Too many players blow smoke up the fans asses and the fans fall for it.

Um, because he would get a million dollars less next year? Unlike Vinny, no-one is going to give him a 5 year $20M contract This may be the last stop in his NHL career.

Its not just the price, its the term that is being asked for by these guys. Its one thing offering a guy like Clarkson a 3 year $18M contract, if he doesn't live up to it, you're not stuck with it for very long. But a 7 year $42M contract? If he reverts back to being a 15 goal scorer, you're stuck with him till 2020!. You can't trade him, cos no-one wants his contract, and you can't bury him in the minors like before. As I've been saying for a while, there's always a desperate GM ready to make a desperate signing and "over-pay." I'm sure someone out there has already given Flip's agent the nod that he'll give him a ginagerous contract, hence his desire to hit FA. Holmgren is desperate to keep his job. If Vinny doesn't work out, and Philly are stuck with him, what does Holmgren care? He won't be there, its someone else's problem.

What's he going to say, "actually, it was all me"? You can also find plenty of old war stories about Holland going to watch guys like Lidstrom and Zetterberg. Andersson is amazing, and we're lucky to have him, but we also have a GM who has retained him - you think other teams haven't tried to poach him? He's also trusted him, and others below him - its a key part of any good leader, its not just about setting the tone and giving the orders, its about trusting and listening to those below you. And your contradictory logic remains - when Holland is the GM, its the scouts who get the credit. When Holland is the chief scout, its the GM who gets the credit. So, which is it, the GM, or the scouts? Or is it, y'know, both, working in unison? BTW: DeKeyser and Brunner.

Holland started out as our western Canada scout. then he was chief scout, then assistant GM. If you can name me all 3 people who currently hold those positions with the Wings (without searching on the internet) and then name players they've "brought into the organisation" I'll give your comments some credit. Otherwise what you just said is "I have no factual knowledge of the subject I'm talking about, so I'm going to just assume Ken Holland had nothing to do with any of it" Dammit, I'm starting to sound like Crymson here

Cleary owes him one

7 years, $42M for a 29 year old with ONE half-decent season. I don't care if he fights like Mike Tyson, thats a ridiculous amount of money.

Ah, you mean from when Holland was our chief scout? So when he's the chief scout, its the GM who gets the credit. When he's the GM, its the scouts who get the credit. Nice. Tails you win, heads I lose In other news, KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN! is reporting the Wings are only prepared to offer Cleary 2 years.

yeah, cos that Philly philosophy of sign every big-name FA, trade for every big name on the trading block, pay them all mega-bucks, then trade/release/buy out a couple of years later has really worked for them, huh? A couple of random trips to the cup finals, and that's it. Throwing players at the wall and seeing who sticks has NOT worked for them. Meanwhile, its only Pronger being on LTIR that will get them just under the cap and they've only got 1 goalie. 5 years is just too much for Vinny on Detroit. If we'd signed him to this deal we'd have him, Franzen, Dats and Z all in their late 30s at the same time eating a huge chunk of cap space.

Yes, yes they did actually. Every single player on this roster was drafted, signed or traded for by Holland. Every one of the coaches. Most of the scouting staff and front office. From top to bottom, on and off the ice, this entire organisation is Ken Holland's handiwork. Exactly what I was thinking too. We're going to have 17 forwards and 7 defencemen (and the 7th is Lashoff!) I've got to imagine Sammy is playing the injury card, he's only got to have an ouchy till Friday and he's safe from a compliance buyout. Of course he's still not safe from an ordinary buyout - will cost us $1M against the cap, and I hope Holland does it if he is dicking around with us. Hell, I hope Holland does it anyway. Maybe he'll send him down to GR to clear a spot. So, with our 26 man roster, and too many forwards, I keep hoping beyond hope that Holland has a trade in the works for a realgud D-man. The buying out of Colo makes no sense otherwise, he was a decent player with a low cap hit and only 1 year left. If not, I'm not quite ready to jump off the Holland bandwagon just yet, but I'm becoming more and more sympathetic to some of the bashing.

I'm not normally a thread nazi, but isn't this covered in the other 20 topics on the front page?

True. To take an analogy from another sport, its like Dimitar Berbatov at Man Utd. A tall, unbelievably skilled player, with a very languid style. Unfortunately he played alongside Wayne Rooney and Carlos Tevez, two small energizer bunnies who were all over the pitch and make him look lazy because he wasn't chasing down players in the left back position. Someone has already beat me to the Corey Perry analogy, there are plenty of other examples. BTW, what do you guys think of leaving him in Junior for another year? The kid has already scored 50 goals, other than bad habits, what more can he learn there?

Philly don't have a goaltender still do they? MAF must be nervously waiting for the buyout deadline too...

We've been having a conversion rate way better than the league average going back 15 years. That's to do with how we scout, draft and develop players. Blashill did a great job last year, but he also had a team loaded with good young players, the best crop of prospects we've had since the early-mid 2000s. BTW, loved this little quote on Hampus Melen from Hakan Andersson So bascially, it looks like Andersson went to speak to him 4-5 months ago, told him the Wings were interested in drafting him, and he went and got his **** together, really lit a fire under his ass.

I think the thing is, we've spent the last few years drafting "value" in the mid rounds. Value equates to smaller, skilled players. Now we've got a prospect pipeline that's overflowing with smaller, skilled players, so drafting even more smaller, skilled players makes no sense. For one year, to focus on size + grit is OK, in the future we can go for a more balanced draft. Right now all we've done is given ourselves a more rounded prospect pool. But one thing to bear in mind guys, chances are that no more than 2 of those 8 players make it to the NHL. If just 3 make it, that would be an amazing draft. Most of these guys are going to end up on the scrapheap.

So they've got $8M left this season and 5 roster spots to fill. UFAs include Iginla, Morrow, Cook and Dupuis. Kennedy has already gone. Next season Niskanen, Jokinen and Orpik are among the UFAs. Their starting goaltender is still Fleury, who's still tying up $5M in cap space. They could buy him out and put...........Bryzgalov?...in net?

Exactly, Holland has been saying for a while that we need to get bigger up front. We've found good value in the mid-rounds with smaller, skilled players, but KH has repeatedly said its a work in progress trying to get bigger. We've added size on the blue-line (Ericsson, Smith, Quincey, Kindl, Lashoff), now we need some beef up front lest our top six end up as Datsyuk-Zetterberg-Nyquist-Tatar-Brunner-Franzen

When he was ranking ~40th in points among centers?

Isn't his wife a model? California or New York then?

I've got a feeling there might be a connection between those 2 statements....if only I could figure out what it is!

Only if it was part of a package for that fabled top-pairing defenceman we're looking for.