Nev

Lol @ Flip with another Empty-netter Rafalski + Babs will ensure a gold-silver-bronze for Detroit.

Um, aren't they from New Zealand? Anyway, the Rafalski one is pure genius

Pffft, that's nowt. On my (only recently discarded) NHL06 dynasty he became a consistent 50 goal 120 point player He was still only 2nd line centre behind Pavel mind, but he did grab the "C" off Lids when he retired On a serious note, FF is correct, he has displayed Datsyukian moments with the puck this season.

Malts wants to play - gotta give him props for that. And no-one wants to end their career as an IR salary cap get-out-of-jail-free card. Even injured its highly doubtful he'd clear waivers. Lets just hope Lebda can be moved.

Kronwall has certainly looked his best since the 08 playoffs. He's carrying the puck through the neutral zone, jumping into the play, and unloading his big hits. Then again, he is playing with Lidstrom who is to D partners what Joe Thornton is to wingers.

No, a player like Howe, if he says Orr was in his opinion the best player ever , I would respect that since he played from the 40s to the 80s and saw a lot players. Likewise, Bowman who coached from the 60s to the 2000s. If he said Orr was the best defenceman ever, having coached Robinson, Coffey, Chelios, Murphy, Lidstrom etc, then you have to respect that. I am after all the one who always brings up how Bowman regarded the 2002 team as the best of them all. But I'm not going to agree he's the best just because everyone from his era says he's the best, which is the argument people are using here. No. The Norris, like the Selke, is an award that you don't win over 1 seasons play. You usually have to build a reputation over several years before you win it. A poke check here, a funnelling to the boards there - these are not the things that journalists who might only see you play 4 times a year are likely to remember when they cast their votes in the summer. Even Babcock said he had no idea how good Lidstrom was till he came here.

And did these opponents, peers and coaches also play against players from the 80s? From the 90s? From the 2000s? Players & coaches always look back with rose-tinted specs and regard "their" era as the best. I'm not saying he's not the greatest defenceman of all time, but your logic for saying so is flawed. Johan Franzen called Darren Helm the best skater he's ever seen. Does that make Helm the greatest skater of all time? Stevie - I don't buy the argument about Lidstrom not being as good in the 90s. IMO he has been remarkably consistent throughout his career, and his play (and stats) from the 90s are no different to the 2000s. It just took 10 years or so for people to realise "dayum, this guys good!" because of his non-flashy style of play. He's been the best player, year in and year out, of the most dominant team of the last 15 years. Remember that thread a while back asking what Lidstrom's best season was? No-one could decide because they were all so similar.

That 2002 Canadian team had Lemiuex, Yzerman, Sakic, Niewendyk and Shanahan. Classy veterans with multiple cups each. I don't see anything similar on the current Canadian roster

I'm not dissing Orr by any stretch, but +/- numbers are grossly inflated during the 70s. It was higher scoring than today, and there were some truly terrible expansion teams in that era. Larry Robinson put up +120 in '77 Denis Potvin was +71 in '79 Don't get me wrong, all 3 were great players, true Hall or Famers, but you can't tell me that they were superior to the great players that followed in the next generation - Bourque, Chelios, Lidstrom etc- just because of a higher plus/minus number? You can prove anything with statistics, and zackmorris kinda has a point - in 20 years time, fans who never saw Lidstrom play will hype his play too. The biggest thing holding him back in peoples all-time rankings is the fact that he hasn't been retired long enough.

no, no, the UK studio analyst insists it filler-piller

Great point. And didn't a recent poll show 90% of players want to play in the Olympics? I'm not one of those who really hate Bettman, like some, but the guy is clearly a moron. The NHL is a weak league in so many ways, Bettman reminds me in this instance of a quote I once saw about Charles DeGaulle, "Tiresome pirouetting from a slender power base"

OK, so this isn't for the Swedes to tell us they'll be supporting Sweden, and the Americans America.... This is if, like me, you come from a country who aren't represented in the Hockey tournament. Alas GB are unlikely to repeat their Gold medal performance from 1924 Me, I'm going for Russia so that Pav can complete his trophy collection, and so that we (hopefully) see their Fab Four strut their stuff. Sweden, sorry guys, but for the Wings sake you guys need to crash and burn.

For the big players like Dats, Lids and Z, all of whom could do with the 2 weeks rest, its hurts us. Ironically, it might help us though with the players recently returned from injury - Kronwall, Franzen and Holmstrom all get to play themselves into game shape on someone elses team Ideally Sweden, Russia and Finland all bomb out in the group stage and we have a Canada-US final

When I lived in the states in the early 90s the most shocking thing for me was the drink-drive culture. Part of it is the fact that to get anywhere in America, you have to drive. And even if you don't have to drive, you'll still drive. Whereas in the UK 90% of the population lives within walking distance of a pub. The other part was the widespread attitude of "I've only had 1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9/10 beers, I'm OK to drive" that I saw from young and old, male and female. In Britain, its mainly middle aged men and chavs/boy racers who exhibit that kind of thinking. Thankfully this thread indicates that maybe attitudes are changing in the US.

Fixed that for you As John Buccigross has been saying for years, Thornton makes his wingers rich.

Hey, quit it with the logic and the facts! I'm willing to be forgiving on Rafalski, after all he did play through a herniated disk AND a separated shoulder last summer. Like a lot of wings I think he's mentally and physically burned out this season. If he sucks for the next 2 seasons at $6M per year, well we just have to keep reminding ourselves it was worth it for the cup he helped bring.... Luckily for Raffi, he's not on a descending contract like Mule & Z, so the chances of him being bought out are less.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Sorry, I just had to do that. One of those "if I don't laugh I cry" moments. Dominate 2 of 3 periods, blow a 3 goal lead and lose another 3 players to boot. The only thing that can save us now is the Olympic break. 2 weeks to rest and refocus for most of our team - Assuming Datsyuk doesn't break his leg and Lidstrom doesn't get a puck in the face. And assumption is the mother of all cock-ups, as we like to say at work.

How come we've been so good 5on5 this period, but both PPs were so bad? We lost every single battle on that 2nd one

Disgraceful fake by Bert on the high-stick - LA stick was nowhere near his face. Thankfully we didn't score on the PP, but its left a bad taste in my mouth. Other than that, great period so far.

How utterly, utterly predictable was that? And what's happended to Homer? I'm watching a Kings feed

So an equivalent deal for us would be Kronwall, Helm, Abdelkader and a 1st? Still doesn't work for us under the cap. NJ didn't give up much to get a huge impact player.

Maybe, maybe not. But its the only way to make it work for Detroit. We have to clear $6M+ in cap space, and those 2 are the only way we can do it, aside from shifting half a dozen roster players. Kovulchuk is a massive upgrade over Flip (and I'm speaking as a Flip slappy). Kronwall is a talented player, but he's not young - he's 29. He's also constantly injured (only played 80+ games ONCE in his career). Right now we are in danger of missing the playoffs, and our biggest problem is goalscoring. Don't pin your hopes on Franzen, he may well not have the time to play his way into form. You think Ilitch is the kind of guy to sit around waiting to see if we make it or not? I'm not too fussed either way if we make the deal, but I *would* wait until after the Olympics. The way our season has gone, who knows how many players we'll get back fit and healthy

Yep, I've said it before, due to the Salary Cap and numerous NTCs on the team, the only realistic way to make this work is Kronwall + Filpulla (~$6M cap space), plus extras. Probably Hudler's rights, and maybe a Leino or Lebda for Kovalchuk. Remember kids when Hossa was being shopped by Atlanta and Flip's facebook page said he'd been traded to the Thrashers? Maybe Wadell is still high on him?

And the track record thus far is that he has increased his points production every season (1, 17, 36, 40) - therefore your claim that he has maxed out at 40 points is flawed. He may have done, but I doubt it.

That's Draper off the Helm-Eaves-Draper line, the line that has been our best and most consistent this season? That Draper? 6 goals, 10 assists, -1, 52% on faceoffs. The vocal veteran leader in the locker room. The guy with 4 Stanley Cups and a Selke who's grooming Helm. That Kris Draper?