Nev

I think he at least wants to test the market. Lets say Kenny offered him 3 yrs, $5M. Surely he would at least want to see if someone would offer him more. He's not earned a huge amount (comparitively) over the course of his career, this is his one chance to land a big contract. If someone out there wants to offer him 4yrs, $9M he'll probly take it. He's won a cup, he's not trying to cement a HOF legacy, he's not a Redwing "lifer" so his reasons to stay are not as strong as for others. But who knows with Sammy, from interviews he's always come across as "different" from other hockey players.

Interesting - thats a pretty weak class. I think you can add Bondra & Lindros to the "genuine candidates" list, but its nothing like the candidates this year. At least two of Leetch/Belfour/Bure will obviously also be bumped into this class. Bondra scored 500 goals, despite playing almost his entire career in the dead puck era, but never won any major awards, a cup, and had below average playoff numbers playing on some generally average Caps teams. Nieuwendyk - just checked his numbers, I never realised they were so good. 564 goals, 1100 points. Add to that 3 cups, Calder, Conn Smythe and an Olympic gold. He always seemed clutch in the playoffs and was one of those guys that you wished was on your team. He deserves to be there. Lindros - despite all the negatives (and I know a lot of people don't like him), the contract holdout, his father, etc it cannot be denied that during the 90s he was almost unstoppable. Even though his last 3 seasons he was a shell of a player he still put up 865 points in 760 games. Should the fact that injuries prevented him from padding his totals into his late 30s (a la say Nieuwendyk ) make him un-HOF worthy, when he was arguably the best player in the league in the mid-late 90s? Turgeon - one of those players (a la Ciccarelli) who managed to put up big career numbers by playing his best years in the late 80s/early 90s when 100 point season were ten-a-penny and then having a loooong career after that. Without even trying I can think of 5 centers of his era who were far superior to him.

Its far from no-contest - they are both surefire Hall Of Famers. The only reason its a discussion is because of the other 3 guys and the 4 inductees rule. In another, weaker year they would both be straight in and we wouldn't even be having this discussion. It does raise the question though - now that players from the post expansion, influx of Europeans era are starting to retire, does the limit of 4 need to raised? But personally, from that crop of players I would go Leetch, Belfour, Bure. The last 2 will just have to wait a year, and the rest are not HOF worth IMO. Mark Howe makes me think of Sergei Zubov - good player on good teams, but not a dominant player.

Great thread - one of the best in a while. I never saw the Islanders play, so I can't comment on Bossy, but I have to agree that people under-rate Jagr. Hull for example, he was just a great goalscorer and not the kind of player to dominate a game. Jagr on the other hand, when he had a fire lit under his ass, he was just unstoppable. 4 x 100 point seasons in the dead-puck era? Thats phenomonal. Thornton doesn't get traded to SJ, and he wins another (highly deserved) MVP with the Rags. Since it was brought up, I'm interested in seeing your LW top 5 lists.

Its been published in dribs and drabs in various articles since the playoffs. Datsyuk - damaged foot AND a charley horse. Cleary - double groin tear Rafalski - Separated shoulder AND herniated disk in back Ericsson - emergency appendectomy, back next game. Lidstrom - emergency surgery to save his testicles back next game Draper - pulled groin Thats 4 of our "big 5" who would have been out if it was regular season - and they still kept Crosby to only 3 points.

As John Buccigross pointed out at the time, there were 13 future Hall Of Famers on the ice in that series (Datsyuk would be the 14th if he makes it). The Wings performance in Game 6 of that series was possibly the best game I have ever seen them play, given the circumstance. They totally pwned the Avs on the forecheck.

That terrible regular season being the one where he set career highs in assists and points? Despite spending most of the season on the 3rd line and getting little PP time? I guess the point remains that he and Kronwall are the only significant salaries we have that don't have a NTC which means they can be bandied about as cap relief. Madness, but there you go.

I'm mixed on the this. On the one hand, Ilitch has plenty of reasons to hate Bettman (Lids/Dats suspension, schedule etc etc etc). On the other - suck it up, be a good sport, and shake his hand. You know what's really bizarre about this though? We're treating shaking Bettmans hand like its shaking the hand of the winning team (at least in my mind thats how it feels). Doesn't that tell us everything?

Whilst Hossa at $4M sounds fantastic, lets just think about this. In order to achieve this, we are going to have to sign him to a long term deal, a la Zetterberg and Franzen, with a tiny salary the last couple of years to bring the average down. That would mean in 10 years time we're going to have 3 players in their late 30s/early 40s eating up $20M in salary. Players who are all going to be well into the suckage years of their careers. Pre-cap we could afford to carry $4M 39 year olds, but not with the cap. All 3 players are going to be slowed down by age and injuries, and will be hated by 50-75% of LGW for it (cf Maltby, Draper, Holmstrom, Chelios). For that reason alone, they should let him walk and use what little cap space we have to sign some 3rd-4th line players who can help our team come playoff time.

I think the Wings bumping against the Salary Cap is irrelvant. They're going to make him a qualifying offer, ~ 900k IIRC. After that its all about what someone is prepared to offer him. A smart GM would offer 2.5M, just under the 1+3 limit, but there are a lot of unsmart GMs out there (as we saw last summer with the crazy offers). The fact that any draft picks given up are for 2010 makes it easier for a GM to part with him - its the classic "buy now, pay later" scenario. But I agree, losing him for a 2nd is the most rational scenario.

This

1) We cannot keep everyone 2) We will get something in return if he signs elsewhere 3) If someone is prepared to pay him upwards of $2.6M p/y we get a 1st and a 3rd 4) Let me repeat that, a 1st and a 3rd round draft pick for Jiri Hudler. If you're Ken Holland, you say "thanks for all you've done, and thanks for the great draft picks" Holland has said it himself regarding managing the cap "Pay to keep your core players, don't overpay for the rest and be prepared to let good players walk"

No doubt they were a MUCH better team than last year. Not as many softies from Fleury Malkin 2009 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Malkin 2008 Zetterberg still >>>> Crosby though To come back from 0-2 down, and then to win Game 7 on the road (at Fortress JLA of all places) is an incredible achievement. I never thought they could win 4 of 5, but they did, and they deserve congrats for it.

If we had just 1 player playing injured, I could accept your argument, but we didn't. We had Datsyuk, Lidstrom, Draper, Cleary and Ericsson all playing injured (at least 2 coming straight back after surgery). Lilja was out all playoffs. Other Wings rumoured or suspected to be injured is some way include Sammuelsson, Homer and Hossa. I mean FFS, Lidstrom had bollock surgery and was back next game playing against 2 of the best offensive talents in the world Babcock himself has said it repeatedly ever since he arrived here - you need to be healthy to win the cup. That we managed to get so close as badly beat up as we are is incredible. As for out of gas - yes they were. They never recovered from the Anaheim series physically, and again, Babcock himself said they won games 1 & 2 on will alone. It wasn't lack of effort, there was just not enough left in the tank to overcome a much better Penguins team. Anyone who has ever played competetive sport should know that when you're tired out, sometimes no matter how hard you try you just don't have that extra jump that you need.

Anyone who doesn't think the NHL influences the referees in one way or another is living in cloud cuckoo land. Remember the first few months of the season when any team trailing in the 3rd was miraculously given a 5 on 3 to tie it up? Then Babcock and other coaches started bitching about it, and as if by magic it suddenly disappeared? Don't get me wrong the officiating in this series has been truly, awfully inconsistent. But by the same token, there is no question whatsoever that the Pittsburgh Penguins are the golden child of Gary Bettman and the NHL - a belief proffessed by fans (and journalists) of every other team in the league. And if you don't believe that refs can be influence to decide a championship, maybe you should learn about the 2006 Italian Serie A match fixing scandal http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Serie_A_...-fixing_scandal This is in the 21st Century, in one of the biggest sporting leagues in the world. Influential figures at some of the biggest teams in the league making sure they got certain referees, and that those referees gave them the decisions they needed to win tight games. I just hope that win or lose, there isn't a game-breaking Reffing controversy tonight a la Hossa no-goal or 6-men-on-the-ice.

There was also an incident with about 5 minutes to go - faceoff in the Pens zone, and Hudler and Talbot were lined up next to each other. Talbot was giving him a load of crap, talking smack, little slashes and the like. Hudler just turned round and looked up at the scoreboard Absolutely classic The commentators on the international feed (Strader & Michelletti) thought it was pretty funny, but I don't know if NBC/CBC picked up on it

Confucious say: Learn the past, and you shall know the future. The game still has to be played on the ice, but nevertheless, if the Pens do pull it off they deserve HUGE props, because to come back from 0-2 down and then win a Game 7 on the road is INCREDIBLY difficult to do, as history bears out.

Shoot early, shoot often! Lets find that softie that resides within MAF every night.

UK Night Shift reporting for duty We've not had on OT yet this series......I'm getting that sudden death feeling @ Electrophile. The juju is good, on the radio before I turned it off was One Of These Days by Pink Floyd. Then I slipped Iron Maiden into the PC, playing now before I turn it off and go to NHL radio is "The Legacy"

Take Rugby for example - I'm sure most people will agree it is a sport with just as much (if not more) physicality and violence as Hockey, and while tempers occasionally boil over and the odd punch or cheap shot is thrown, at the end of the game win or lose you shake the opponent by the hand and walk off. All this "sending a message" BS is just that, BS. The only message it sends is "I'm not as good as you and the only way I can respond to that is with violence". Its the mindset of the child, the immature and the bully. And just look what an effective tactic it is! The last 2 years Nashville, Colorado, Dallas, Pittsburgh, Anaheim, Chicago and Pittsburgh again have all tried "sending a message" to Detroit. Yep, Detroit got that message loud and clear

I've been calling for it ever since we signed Hossa last season! What I don't understand is they had an awesome couple of games against Anaheim, then got split up again

Such a tough one to call - it really is a flip of the coin. Before the finals I said Hank might steal it if he repeats his Amazing-Disappearing-Crosby trick of last year, and right now that may have propelled him in front of Ozzie in the minds of the voters (and is the most recent in their memory). Of course, we still need to win 1 more first, otherwise its going to Malkin. But me personally, I hope Ozzie wins it, because it makes his jersey retirement/HHOF argument infinitely stronger.

There's no question the Wings are running on fumes right now. Babcock said it himself, they won game 2 on will alone. From that 7 game war with Anaheim straight into Chicago then straight into Pittsburgh with the back to backs, against an energised and hungry team with 2 elite offensive players. Add to that who knows how many players are playing injured - Lidstrom has had the elbow all season now his groin as well, Draper, Rafalski. I think Sammy and Homer are playing hurt as well. There is a 2 day break after game 5, right? Win or lose, we're going to need it, because Malkin and Crosby are wearing Zetterberg out like we wore out Getzlaf.

Hey, it works for Pronger.

BWAHAHAHHAHA! So, not only is he fugly, he also has the mental age of a 2 year old. Absolutely priceless, I can't stop laughing