Uncle Danny

The bartender says "sorry, we don't serve anything faster than the speed of light here." A neutrino walks into a bar.

I know his best seasons were with us, but I was sad to see Ysebaert go. IIRC, we got Ward for him, though, so given his later production this actually turned out ok. Chiasson for Vernon was a bummer at the time, but we all know how that one turned out. On the subject of the Primeau trade, I was upset to see Coffey go. I was a huge fan of his -- watching him and Nick hold the line on the PP was a thing of beauty. Shanahan worked out pretty well for us, though

I don't think he'll leave Ottawa, nor do I think he should. But...there is no part of me that would turn down a chance to have him play in our top six for a year, maybe two, given the opportunity. He's everything that the Wings purport to want in their players: classy, smart, work ethic, leadership. He's one of a small handful of players in the league I doubt even the most jaded among us could talk serious trash about, excepting his age (thus the "for a year or two bit).

Came here to post something similar. The number of people here who are qualified to answer this question is likely incredibly low. I'm 40 and have been watching hockey most of my life, and there is no way I can give an informed opinion based on firsthand experience. I'm guessing that I skew older than most posters here, to boot.

Hey! Whud I ever do to you?!?!?

Who's doing that? I don't get it. He's the most physical presence on the team, one of three guys who will drop the gloves sometimes, brings speed and energy and chips in the odd point from time to time. I don't think anyone is calling him Lucic, Dino or even Tikkanen for that matter. He's fun to watch, contributes something no one else wearing red does and worth his relatively low price point. Character aside, I'll take Tootoo over Downey or May every time.

I think you meant 17 goals per SEASON, not game. If he was doing 17 goals per game, people would already be saying "Wayne who?" Your points are good ones, though. As for Brunner, I would have absolutely zero qualms with giving him $3.5 for two years for all of the reasons already mentioned. You seriously don't let a player like him leave over $1m, assuming he'll take the shorter term contract. He brings something to the table we sorely lack, and is (hopefully) just getting warmed up. On the flip side, he'd be a fool to ask for a longer term deal or to bolt from a team that he fits well on, gave him his shot, has a winning tradition, and has linemates he's proven to have some chemistry with. With a two year deal, he'll only be 29 next time his bell comes up and still very much in his prime. To my mind, that situation is the safest bet for all parties concerned. He doesn't wind up playing for a doormat for five years and busting, gets a reasonable amount of money and a lot of great experience. We get some scoring we desperately need at a reasonable price, and aren't locked into anything if he Leinos.

Agreed in principle. The guy can absolutely do it all. But if you put my middle aged arse on a line with St. Loui, I'd pot 25. He's amazing. Stamkos has all the skills, not looking to take away from him, but I'm interested to see what he does once Marty hangs them up.

On Cleary, the fact that he scored on "flukes" wasn't flukey at all. He was doing exactly what he should be doing: going to the net and being in the right place at the right time. I'll grant you that his body is breaking down some, however, he is EXACTLY the type of guy I want playing for us right now. He knows his role, he digs and works harder than anyone else on the ice every single shift, and has been to a few rodeos before... oh, and he's scoring. Grit, determination, hard work and experience. That sounds like a playoff warrior to me. He's playing beyond what his body should allow at this point, showing the kids how it's supposed to be done, and that's beyond admirable.

I'm so very, very, very glad that no one on this board (myself included) is GM of this team. We'd make Millbury and Millen look like the greatest sports brain trust that ever lived. Fil not worth more than $3.5m? Helm as our second line center? Tatar ready to step into a second line role for a full season? Eesh.

That is just silly talk. Our team would be better with him on it this season than without. I don't see how that is even arguable.

Samuelsson A) Is he worth the 3 mil, 2 years, NTC contract? It's a gamble, but yes. He's a proven winner and brings a good defensive game, and a heavy (logo seeking) RH shot. B) Will he play best on Datsyuk's line, Zetterberg's line, Helm's line or Abdelkader's line? My guess is he bounces between the 2nd and 3rd, with some injury time up with Dats. C) Does his constant shooting mentality hurt or benefit the team? Benefits. Every shot you don't take... D) Serious question: would you play him at the point on the PP? No, at least not on PP1. Helm A) Is he worth 2.15 mil annually for 4 years? Yes. B) Would you play him on the PP? No. C) Can he improve offensively? Of course. D) Would you say he's the 3rd most important forward on the Wings? Absolutely not. White A) Predict the economics of his next contract No way to do so until we see his mettle this season. B) Would you offer him that deal? Uhhh.... maybe? Depends on the deal and on his play. No way to answer this one. C) Can he play well without Lidstrom? Yes, but of course his level will drop. Whose wouldn't? Lidstrom could make me look like an all star. D) Will his controversial public comments force Kenny to not offer him an extension? This is silly. Of course not.

One of these things is not like the others... PS: Sorry, couldn't resist. I agree with the rest of your argument.

Kung fu, easily. Kung fu or Karate?

There quite simply is no way I could fathom voting for anyone in the history of hockey above Gretzky at the center position. You know why Gretzky isn't known as a great two way player? Because any coach on the planet would have been a moron to ask him to curtail his scoring. He didn't have to play great defense because he'd simply outscore the other team. There is a reason he's known as The Great One. Just playing out a hypothetical: had he decided that he wanted to play a defense first game, his hockey IQ and vision were such that I have no doubt he'd have been among the very best at it. As they say, though, you can teach defense, you can't teach scoring... which is what he did better than anyone before or since. EDIT: Clarity

That's actually a pretty fair point. I don't think it's a stretch to say that Lidstrom would be on the first or second pairing all time. Yzerman would likely be among the best players on the practice squad (ouch, that kinda hurt to type).

I'm not saying he'd have maintained the same pace. That would indeed be very foolish. If you'd read what I posted, I'm saying that if he'd forgone the defense that became the hallmark of his later years, tallying an additional 133 points over his actual career total would not have been a stretch. EDIT: WOOPS! Thought you were quoting me there. My apologies. Apparently it's my reading comprehension that needs work.

To the OP, I'm going to parrot what others have already said. Yzerman was the better Red Wing, Lidstrom the better player. That said... I actually came here to refute this point by saying that Stevie's body broke down in later years, and he no longer would've been able to compete with a purely offensive game. I still think this is true, and I don't believe he would've lasted 12 more seasons that way. However... I took a quick peek at the all time scoring leaders, and it is not unfeasible (hi, double negative!) that he could've taken the number two all time spot if things had gone differently. Had he even played one more season in the real world, he definitely would've ousted Dionne, and possibly even taken the #4 spot from Francis had he remained healthy (given his numbers from his last two seasons -- 75gp, 55p and 61gp, 34p). With him only 132 pts behind Messier even with his switch up to two way play, I could honestly have seen him topping every other forward all time save for the Great One. 2 Mark Messier EDM, NYR, VAN, NYR 1756 1887 1.07 3 Gordie Howe DET, HFD 1767 1850 1.05 4 Ron Francis HFD, PIT, CAR, TOR 1731 1798 1.04 5 Marcel Dionne DET, LAK, NYR 1348 1771 1.31 6 Steve Yzerman DET 1514 1755 1.16 ...of course then we'd have exactly zero cups, and people would be talking about how he was the best centerman never to win the big one...

This one stands out for me: If I recall correctly, Miller gave the guy his stick after the game.

Also their history and innovation in drafting lesser known European players before that was all the rage. They truly reshaped the way the league looks at foreign talent. The history of Ted Lindsay, Jack Adams and the union is also a pretty interesting story.

I had a similar thought, but decided the OP meant only time with the Wings. Even if we're looking at their entire careers, though, I still might've given the nod to Fedorov -- I'm just not sure, especially having seen far more of Fedorov in his prime than Fetisov. Either way, it would've been a much tighter decision. Festisov certainly did more for the game of hockey. Regarding Vladdy, I'd reword your statement slightly. Konstantinov's positioning was amazing, but he was no Lidstrom...no one is or ever has been. Vladdy's hitting far surpassed Kronner's, though. There wasn't a forward in the game who wasn't afraid to enter his zone because #16 made each and every one of them pay the price for it.

This is not at all a knock on Datsyuk, who is my favorite active player hands down by 12 country miles, but Fedorov was better in his prime. I've heard some say that Datsyuk is a great defensive forward (he is, and the Selkes back it up), that his stickhandling skills are par none (they are) and that he just brings straight up sex appeal to the on ice game (he does as well -- dude is slick). The thing is, if you can come up with an adjective or description of a good skater in hockey, Fedorov matches that description (to my knowledge, he never played goalie, thus me saying "skater"). Want a power forward? Check. Need speed and energy? Gotcha, boss. Want a top forward shut down? Not a problem. Penalty killed? P'shaw. Need someone to dish? Yeah, we can do that. Shots from the point? Snipe? Check? Just need me to intimidate the entire other team with how much better I am at the game than all of you? No sweat. See you next shift. The man's double helixes were made of hockey sticks. Pasha is an incredible talent, and a great role model...but Fedorov was the better hockey player.

He is not a handsome man.

Going to ignore Wings players, just because there were so many on that 2002 team that could make this list. Best players I've seen in person (no order): Gretzky, Messier, Stevens, Leetch, Francis, Crosby, Malkin, Brodeur, Pronger (f*** that guy), Macinnis, Iginla, several I'm sure I'm forgetting in my old age PS: As much as I love Datsyuk (which is a lot), Fedorov was a far superior player. He was, quite simply, phenomenal in his prime.