Frozen-Man

True.

I think you make good points. Who knows what will happen either way the Hawks and their fans will spin it as great news.

Not really the same at all in my mind for a couple of reasons. For one, the majority of the Red Wings team wasn't being dismantled before their fans eyes, it is the culmination of everyone that they lost that would make it harder on the fans. Also, as Vernon himself said "I was brought in here for a couple of things. . . [t]o win a Stanley Cup and to help Chris Osgood develop into a front-line NHL goalie."That is not the Hawks situation at all. The Wings were extremely high on the talent of their young goalie, Osgood played 47 games compared to Vernon's 33, had a better GAA, better SV%, and 6 shutouts compared to none for Vernon. Vernon was grooming Osgood for the future and they felt Osgood was ready to be that future. The Hawks have a $5M+ goalie who got benched for not playing well and not much else, the only goalie in their system even mentioned is Crawford who has a grand total of 8 regular season NHL games under his belt (2 in 05-06, 5 in 07-08, and 1 in 09-10) which has amounted to 1 total NHL win. Trading Vernon when you think you have something better in Ozzy (especially when part of what you brought Vernon in to do is train Ozzy) is not the same as not signing Niemi when your options are using Huet who Niemi beat out and cost you $5M plus or bringing in your AHL goalie with no real NHL experience, especially with all the Hawks have already lost.

Yeah but you also have to look at the perception. He replaced a goalie with a $5.625M cap hit and took the starting position from him (yeah Huet is grossly overpaid but still - also I realize he can't bring up Huet's salary in arbitration) then they had the confidence to ride him as their goalie going into the playoffs and he was the guy in goal when the Hawks won their first Cup in over 50 years. That is a lot to present to an arbiter and also would be a psychological blow to fans to lose the guy in goal when you won the Cup. If it is less than $2.5 I think they have to match it for PR sake.

I agree the few extra goals are not worth it if we can get a guy who isn't a liability and is more of an enforcer. Not you but a few guys here might say that. I kid. . . I kid. But not by much.

Gotta agree, I would at least try splitting up Lids and Raffy but I would try to (at least some) get those bottom pairings playing with better guys to help their game and their confidence.

That to me is part of the problem, that is an awful lot of money to pay for an awfully long time for a player you don't need. He is great and don't really blame him but not the best decision by the Hawks, in my opinion. I like Dat's contract too and I think that Kenny would have liked to sign similar deals for Mule and Z, however, he never would have gotten near the cap hit he got if it weren't for the years meaning that we probably wouldn't have Mule if not for the length of both their contracts.

I agree, he seems like he will be great for the team, someone that will really help with that weakness. One thing I found interesting about Nill's statement though is he said every team has a weakness because of the cap. I wonder if the Wings management realize that "not being too tough" is the Wings weakness but realizing that the cap forces all teams to be weak in some area they are willing to let that be the Wings weakness. Not saying he does, just curious. Throw in Helm and that would be a non-stop hit fest. I agree fighting is a very very important part of the game but that is perhaps the worst analogy ever.

"What's the problem? . . . Hudler had a chick and a pole on his day with the cup too."

Awesome post. :clap:

+1 rep from me for changing the avatar.

Or that he knew he would just lose the player if they received an offer sheet because he wouldn't be able to match it, so why concern yourself with it.

If Raffy is waived and claimed, which he would be, the Wings are on the hook for half of his salary which will count against the cap.

I agree that he doesn't owe them any loyalty to not sign with another team. It is many player's dream to play their entire career with one team, he may be trying to decide if he wants to retire only being a Star/North Star. Not exactly loyalty but kind of tangent of it.

Its hard to say what would have happened if Quincey had stayed, however if he had blossomed into the player he has become he would have wanted that two-year, $6.25 million deal from Detroit.

Lets hope that day doesn't come.

Modano never consistently had the caliber of teams that any of the three you mentioned had. There may be emotionally based bias approving of signing Modano by some on the forums here but Kenny and Co. who are the ones actually pursuing the dealare not going after Modano for "emotional sentimental" reasons. They are some of the best in the business and to suggest that somehow the fact that a few fans would like Modano here based upon sentimentality is no way relevant to the sound and logical reasoning that Kenny, Babs, Ilich, and the rest of the Wings brass want to bring him here. Now you are just being silly. The Dallas Stars and the Detroit Red Wings are NOT the same team. Dallas is a young team who is trying to build up their infrastructure to become a relevant contender again, Detroit is already a relevant contender who just need tweaks to improve on an already elite product. I guess by your rationale Niklas Backstrom is not good because the Wild had a worse record than Dallas and "if [backstrom] is STILL so good why has [Minnesota]" been so bad? (The same could be said for Kessel, Tavares, Lecavalier, St. Louis, Malone, Stamkos, Eric Staal, Horcoff, Penner, Souray, Nash, and several others who are on teams that did worse than the Stars). One player can't make a team championship caliber. Way to cherry pick. You go back two years rather than using last year's stats you go back to the year before because they help your arguement. His latest stats he was a -6 on a team full of minus players. You can't compare his +/- to another teams. Look at Dallas over all and they are a minus team, they had two guys total that were above a +3 the Wings had seven. The Wings were a +13 in goal differential and the Stars were a -17, it makes a huge difference to play on a team that scores 13 more goals than its opponents rather than one that gives up 17 more goals than its opponents. I guess Brad Stuart gets no "kudos from the fans" since he was a -12 last year. Oh yeah and those 15 goals still helped Modano be a .58 ppg player that year.

For his age Modano still has a pretty good set of wheels. I don't think he will hurt us at all in that regard.

I'm really happy with getting this guy for $650K great role player to have on the team.

Pretty funny even if it is the Ducks

I didn't see it listed yet but Colorado gave Kyle Quincey a two year $6.25M contract. Quincey has played well for them but some of these contracts are outrageous. Glad that the Wings haven't bought in at the prices this year.

He would have been a good addition for that price. I wonder if it would have cost more to get him away from St. Louis? No idea but he might not have wanted to up and move without getting more in return.

I agree, I like Miller and hope he gets the chance to stay here (which I assume he will since he has been given an offer sheet he will likely get the chance to keep his spot at camp)I just think Modano would not be a defensive liability to this team at all. Touche sir!

The thing is +/- has to be looked at in comparison to the entire team. Not that Modano was one of the top guys on his team but there were only 2 guys on the entire Stars team that were above a +3 while the Wings had 7 that were +5 or better. I'm not saying that Modano is as good defensively as Miller is but the Wings were a +13 in goal differential while Dallas was a -17 and the differential of 30 goals overall skews comparing their plus minus numbers. I must respectfully disagree, we were also missing a referee in our pocket, having one of our own would have really helped even out the series.