Frozen-Man

Agreed, it makes perfect sense, if they are going to lose those players next year anyway due to cap issues the best option is to trade them for a big gun who will be a free agent next year. They get the cap relief that they have to have by letting Kovy walk and get a great chance to get the Cup this year. Yeah but remember the same thing was said about the Wings when they landed Hossa last year, anything can happen and I'm still not convinced Huet can get the job done when it matters.

I agree that Meech is a better and slightly cheaper option but playing 15 less games and less TOI is not good when they have basically (although 23% worse) the same +/-. With more games and more ice time the trend is that Meech's +/- would be worse than it is.

What is scary is that the picture isn't photoshopped.

Awesome mask --- Can't wait to see the games.

That only goes so far though, Gordie Howe put up 103 points in 76 games back in 1968-69 but even though he has done it in the past I wouldn't pay him like a 103 point player in the present. The might be done is incredibly relevant in determining a players salary. For example on the list was Mike Modano (who I have always liked) but his what has been done in the past is not very likely to be replicated in what he will do in the future. Modano has had many 80+ point seasons and even one 90+ season but it is incredibly unlikely that he will have anything like that in the future. Flip is playing well (more PPG than guys like Modano) and was signed in anticipation that he will continue to improve, Kenny thought it was a good gamble. I think so far he is right, Flip was playing great before he got hurt and has played well since returning and he has the probability of continued improvement rather than regression.

Yeah Draps could retire with time remaining on his contract but the Wings would be stuck with his 1,583,333 cap hit. Draper has played well this year and there is no way the Wings trade Draper. Loyalty to guys like that is part of the reason that guys like Z, Mule, and Lids consider taking discounts to stay with the Wings.

Micah, I know we have our disagreements about some issues but couldn't agree with you more on this issue. It is well stated and succinctly put, thanks for the insight and the opinion.

Most of the major sports stars have chiropractors that they see regularly and many (such as Lance Armstrong) make them travel where ever they go to compete.

But . . . my magic 8 ball said "Signs point to yes" when I asked if the Wings would pick up Kovy before the deadline. I think I'll rely on the Magic 8 Ball it has a better track record. Thanks for the link though, still fun to read.

I think that there should be far less time outs. However, in the NBA each team gets six timeouts for the game game (full time outs, they also get one 20 second time out a half). What is really stupid is that four of the six time outs are mandatory and they have to be used at specific times in each of the quarters and you can't use more than 2 in the final 2 minutes of a half. The whole process is stupid. I wish they only had a couple of time outs per half (maybe one full and one 20 second time out) and they could take them whenever they wanted. I can't hardly stand to watch the games mostly because of the cockiness and egos that so many of the players have (I love that in hockey if a guy acts like such a cocky jerk somebody is going to punch him, I think that knowing that they will have to answer for their actions tends to help people stay more grounded) but also because like the OP said the last 2 minutes of a game take for ever. Let a lot of the players get punched in the face a few time, remove the majority of the timeouts, and figure out a way to let player substitute within the flow of the game (something else that severely slows down the game) and maybe I might watch it. I think a lot of that comes from not having to worry about this or this :punch:. Those two things really seem to help guys stay grounded.

:clap:

It looked like the jump was an effort to not hit the goalie, to squeeze between him and the boards. If he has wanted to Janssen could have leveled him much harder than he did.

I disagree that a conclusion can be made at all. There are numerous factors that can be considered. Hank and Dats have both missed games, when you compare Hanks GPG .29 with Sammy's .29 there is not much difference and both are getting beaten by Homer at .36. Vancouver as a team is scoring a lot more than the Wings. They are ranked #4 with 3.18 G/G and 156 total while the Wings are 28th with 2.49 G/G and 122 total. It makes it easier with the entire team is scoring lots of goals. Sammy is on a team that is playing really well and is scoring lots of goals, him included. Hank, Pav, and Nick are on a team that is struggling to score goals (largely due to injuries that have taken away a lot of threats and setups along with inconsistencies in lines) and are struggling. Additionally, I think that the lack of other requirements, especially defensive responsibilities, that Sammy has makes it much easier to score goals. If you put Sammy into the same roles that Dats, Z, and Nick are asked to play I think that his goal production would go down quite a bit (although I admit this is pure conjecture which is why as I initially stated I don't think a conclusion can be made). I do admit that it is surprising, but it is kind of like Kyle Quincy. People were pissed (only well after the fact) that Kenny let him go because he did so well on the Kings. That was a completely different environment with a different role, responsibilities, and ice time. He flourished there but to compare his situation there to what his situation was here is not a fair comparison. Yeah, I have and that is kind of my point anomalies happen. If it wasn't Sammy it would be someone else, i.e. Quincy, because NHL play, players, stats, and teams are not static things Sammy is ahead now but take a larger window in which you compare and it is not even close (and likely will not be in the future) even close. QFT

He doesn't turn 35 until February 2nd. . . Coming up quick but I'm just saying.

Excellent news! That should be a big boost for the team. QFT

I guess that is where we have a disagreement on the issue. If Dats gets 85 points he is under producing and if Sammy gets 45 he is over producing. I don't get the point of the comparison. In any given year Dats will have to either overproduce, underproduce, or produce exactly what he should (the same with Sammy). The fact that Dats is below where he should be and Sammy is above where he should be has no common factor. What does Sammy's production have to do with the Red Wings at all. There is no evidence that if he were on the Wings this year he would still be over producing. Just pick any two random players in the NHL and you might have the same comparison, one is doing better than usual and one is doing worse. I glad Sammy is having a good year but fail to see a relevant comparison to any Wings player. The Wings have guys that are over producing too. Bertuzzi, Eaves, Miller, Helm all of these guys have come in and produced above expectations (not what some here hoped they might do but realistic expectations based upon their past few years). That is why I stated Sammy also had more goals than other random players such as Vinny and Big Joe, what Sammy does has absolutely no bearing on either of those players performances and comparing the two is really just making isolated and random observations and then tying them together in a way that shows no real comparison. Sammy will have the type of year that he has regardless of what Dats does and Dats will have the year that he does regardless of the type of year Sammy has. Would Sammys goal scoring accomplishments be any less impressive if Dats scored 40 goals this year? No of course not, because the event stands on its own, entirely independant of Datsyuk's play. Likewise, will Dats 18 goals (if he stays on his current pace) be any more of a disappointment if Sammy scores 27 goals (his current pace) this season? No, Datsyuk's production is disappointing in its own right regardless of is Sammy scores 4 goals or 40. There is no need for a comparison because Sammy's impressive goal scoring stands on its own as does Dats lack of scoring. I didn't intend to accuse you of stating the opposite, that was not my intention and if it came across as such I apologize. I agree that Sammy has been impressive and am glad he is doing so well. My point was just that goals don't always show that much especially when you are comparing him to Nick. Every year that Sammy was on the team he had more goals than Nick, yet Nick was always and continues to be the far superior player. Additionally, if you look at other stats such as assists and points they are both beating Sammy. Additionally, look at something like their short handed TOI/G, Hank has 1:24, Dats has 1:07 while Sammy only has 0:11. Hank and Pav are relied upon much more heavily to go out against the other teams top lines and be defensively sound than by its nature will lead to less offensive chances and scoring than a guy who is put out there for the primary purpose of scoring and as long as he isn't a major defensive liability he is filling his role. The role that Hank and Sammy are called on to play is very different than Sammy's. That was my point in stating that they are the better players, not because I thought you were saying that they weren't but because Sammy's job is to shoot the puck and score goals while Hank, Pav, and to an even greater degree Nick's job is much more complex. I understand the statement, I don't disagree with the data, what I don't get its relevance or the logic behind the conclusion because the two events i.e. Sammy's overachieving and Dats underachieving are completely and totally unrelated and stand on their own. Dats, Hank, and Nick are not producing goals the way they should completely and totally regardless of Sammy's play (see my response above, their production would still be just as disappointing if Sammy had 0 goals). Here is my point broken down in its simplest form: Hank is tied for 100th place in the NHL in goals, 99 guys are beating him, Sammy is no different than the other 98 players. Dats is tied for 120th place in the NHL in goals, 119 guys are beating him, Sammy is no different than the other 118 players. Nick is tied for 372nd place in the NHL in goals, 371 guys are beating him, Sammy is no different than the other 370 players (including Drew Miller and Ville Leino).

I don't think I did miss the point. If you'll look back at the specific post I was responding to it was about Sammy having more goals than Pav, Hank, and Nick. My point is that while an individual player's number of goals is important it is not always a full representation of the whole player. Sammy also had more goals than Nick last year and the year before but he clearly wasn't kicking Nick's *** as a player last year or especially the previous year when Nick won the Norris, as I don't think he is (again in the entirety of the player) this year. My point is that while Sammy is putting up quite a few goals the other players are still all around better players. The reason for listing other (and much better players) than Sammy who have fewer goals is to point out that Sammy is over producing (viewed through his previous years) and there is not much point in taking a guy who has 16 goals through 48 but only 19 in 81, 11 in 73, and 14 in 53 for the previous three seasons. I don't get the point or what comparison can be made from a guy on another team how is having a well above average year and comparing it to a player on another team which has been decimated with random injuries that have constantly changed the makeup of the team and has had a below average scoring year. I don't see what the comparison shows or proves and don't think that just looking at goals is an accurate representation anyway. Hence my list of non-Wings players who also have fewer goals than Sammy but are far superior players.

All that is true and the number of goals that a player has is important but it isn't the end all and be all of a player. He has 5 goals more than Pav . . . and yet I would still rather have Pav on my team. He has r more goals than Hank and . . . and yet I would still rather have Z on my team. He has a whopping 13 more goals than Nick . . . and yet I would still definitely rather have Nick on my team. Don't get me wrong, congratulations to Sammy (I always liked him here) he is playing great but he still is no where near the talent of our stars and no GM would ever, even for a second, consider trading any one of the three guys you mentioned for him even if he has more goals because they are much better PLAYERS. Also, FYI he has more goals than a lot of guys. He is tied for 38th in the NHL in goals but is no where near the 38th best player in the NHL (likewise Nick is tied for 371st in goals but he is nowhere near the 371st best player). For example Sammy also has more goals than: Joe Thornton Ryan Getzlaf Teemu Selanne Phil Kessel Brian Rolston Martin St. Louis Brenden Morrow Vincent Lecavalier

I actually agreed with most of your posts in this thread. I wish May would have been able to do something but that is the instigator rule having the effect they intended. The post above however is incredibly flawed logic. Basically what you come down to is May must be doing his job because we aren't looking for an enforcer? In the first place you have no idea what Kenny and Co. are shopping around for as the trade deadline gets nearer. In the second place, whether Kenny is or is not looking for an enforcer does not necessarily mean May is or is not fulfilling his role. It is a bad assumption that you then act as if its a fact.

I love these types of fights in hockey. They are so much fun to watch and add such a great old time feel to the game. To me guys like this fighting is one of the things that helps to seperate hockey from any of the other major pro sports.

Kenny has stated repeatedly he doesn't like doing that. He thinks it often times it shatters a players confidence and takes a long time to build back up. He likes to keep them dominating in the minors until they are a little over ripe and ready for the big time.

Kopecky straight up, or maybe Atlanta could throw in a 2nd rounder to get it done.

I agree, however I think part of the disparity comes from the fact that there is a big difference between "what would you trade" and "what would it take." What I would trade would definitely not rise to the level of what it would take to get Kovy. There are too many other teams that are much more desperate for his services, have the cap space, and are willing to overpay to bring him in.

I have no problem with the theory behind it but would recommend sending out someone who actually would intimidate so that the point (and a punch) actually lands.