Frozen-Man

No, it doesn't make more sense to lose Kovy for nothing but that is not Atlanta's only option and is most likely not even close to the best one that they could get. I don't think it would be that great for Chicago, the salary dump to get Kovy would have to be some really good assets or Atlanta would never agree to the trade, look at what all The Pens had to give up to get Hossa and Chicago will have to give up roster players to get their cap down. I think that they would most likely have to give up way to much for him when they could trade away the same pieces for future picks (unless they decide this is the year to go for it and at further expense to the future).

My prediction is more of a Robert Lang hat trick.

I notice that you don't consider guys like Eaves. He also makes $500,000 but is a plus 5 (tied for fourth on the team) and has played 403:01 this season as opposed to May's 206:42. While not always true, generally you would think that May's +/- would go down if he played almost 50% more a game. This is in no way a knock on Brad May, I'm glad they brought him to the team and have been very happy with his play this season. It is a comment on: 1) your condescending statements of "a lesson in hockey scoring" and "the most overlooked stat in hockey by novice fans" as if you, with your infinite hockey wisdom are going to instruct everyone on the board; and 2) the rediculuous nature of using the fact that May is a -3 to prop him up as something that he is not. His line mate Maltby is a-1 has played more than 100 minutes more and is only making $883k. It is a silly argument to make that somehow May in his limited minutes, against the lines he plays against is somehow wonderful because he is only a -3. Again this post is not intended to trash May, he has been great but because he has filled the role he was brought in to fill and not because he is only a -3.

Wow, brilliant prediction. When Z, Cleary, Mule, Kronner come back we will do better. Huh I wouldn't have ever thought that might happen, you are really taking a bold stance. Let me try, I'll bet the Wings have red somewhere on their jerseys for the next game. Couldn't agree more. May is a good 500k addition to the team, has performed the role he was brought in to play well, and has brought excitement to game. Glad to have him on the team but is not what some make him out to be. Great post.

What an absolute moron. What about the Cup year before last or getting to game 7 of the SCF last year. Since the lockout never less than 50 wins or 112 points and always first in their division. Then because of an unreal amount of injuries and a hard cap year he is floundering and clueless.

I agree we may not get much offensive uptick from him but I'm hoping he will continue to help our ever improving (well not so much last night) defense.

I don't disagree that Bertuzzi is looked down upon largely because the injury was so bad, had the injury not been bad it would not have been that big of a deal. However, I do think that there are a couple of big differences between Mac's attack and Bert's. First Mac's retaliation was pretty much instantaneous, thus negating the premeditated question that continues to revolve around the Bertuzzi incident (not only Bert's motive and actions but also whether his coach ordered the attack). Second, Bert rode Moore down onto the ice which is what cause such severe damage (I'm not sure that it was intentional but it looks like it in the video and it looks like Bert is slamming him down face first into the ice after Moore is out cold), Mac didn't do anything like that so it doesn't look near as bad on replays, which is partially why Bert took so much heat.

classic!

Two pretty big games though. His two goals against Nashville and Anaheim both gave us a 3 point swing against a division team and a conference team. Because of his goals against Nashville we are 2 points behind them in the standings rather than 5. Not quite as important against the Ducks but still a big two points for us.

Good idea trade him when his stock is high. We shouldn't trade him now or if his numbers aren't improved by the end of the year. Are you serious, you admit he is a 90+ point player but he is not capable of getting to 100+. He may not ever get to that magic number (not that there is much difference between 97 and 100 except the psychological difference) but it is silly to say he is not capable. You are probably the only person to think Dats is over-paid.

I agree that comparing what Mac did is entirely relevant to the discussion (although there is a huge difference in the circumstances leading up to why Mac did what he did and why Carcillo did what he did). What I didn't think is relevant to the discussion is this: That statement is not relevant to the discussion and in light of multitudes of previous similar comments is just another cheap shot to disparage a Wings (or former Wings) player. I agree that it has always been part of the game especially in the context that you are talking about (and the context of the Carcillo hit), more I guess I was talking about guys taking exception to any and every good, hard, clean hit no matter who it is on their team getting hit. It's not so much a standing up for teammates issue (which when there is a cheap shot I am all for) as it that every time there is a good hit there is a stoppage in play because of a scrum. Mickey and others talk all the time about how there used to be a time when guys took a big clean hit and then got up and kept playing. That doesn't happen very much anymore.

Seriously, how/why do you take any topic on this board and use it as an opportunity to bash the Wings. Pathetic I agree, 4 games is a long time but I hate when guys do both of the things Carcillo did, try to fight over a good clean hit and don't square off at all. That could have been a really good fight but Carcillo did what Tootoo always does and tries to beat the guy before the fight began. I think 4 games is a long suspension but if (God forbid) the NHL ever decides to ban fighting these kinds of "fights" will be part of the reason. Bradley could have been seriously injured in one of those head hitting the ice incidents. You often hear Mickey and others say "no one gets seriously hurt in a clean fair fight" but guys do get injured from these types of cheap shots.

I absolutely agree. Lids is a great captain but like almost every captain he has his weak spots. He has never come across as the type of guy to yell and scream and I think it would probably come across a disingenuous if he did. That is why it is important to have alternate captains and veteran players who compliment Lids strengths and it appears Drapes did it perfectly here.

I agree that matters but Hossa supposedly had the injury throughout the season and played well but then didn't perform as well in the playoffs. No going back four years shouldn't favor Franzen because your main arguement for Hossa was PPG you added in Mules earlier playoffs where he had a lot of games but not much production. As I showed in the stats, going back 4 years hurts Franzen because he was not a producer 4 years ago. He did not break out until a couple of years ago. That is what his contract was signed based upon. It is always "what have you done for me lately" not "what did you do for me four years ago." That is why Franzen got the big pay increase because of his previous two playoffs not the two before that. It is the same reason that Bertuzzi is getting the salary that he is now even though he had 60-97 point seasons in 2001-2006. He is not the same player that he was then and Mule has not played the last few playoffs like he played in the playoffs four years ago. A players worth to a team in how is performing now. The closer in time you get to the present (while still allowing enough of a span to get an accurate overview) the better it is for determining a player's current abilities and worth to the team. For example if you look at Chelios over his career it is incredible but if you look more recently it is not as impressive, players change, whether it be because of age (as in the case of Cheli) or because a player develops and comes into his own (as in the case of Franzen). You went back four years because when you did it makes Mule's stats worse not better, his most current play in the playoffs is right on par with Hossa's. I'm not arguing that Mule is better than Hossa, in fact if you look back I said I didn't fully disagree with you. My point is that Mule has held his own stats wise against Hossa's the last few playoffs, he wanted less money, was brought up in the Wings system, and therefore was a better fit to keep on this team.

I don't fully disagree with you but there are a few other factors to consider. Mule had .463 goals per game and Hossa had .391 goals per game. Additionally, Mule has over-performed compared to expectations whereas for what most were expecting Hossa has under-performed (with the exception of his playoffs in Pittsburgh). If you look at his last two playoff campaigns Hossa had 12 goals and 26 points in 20 games with Pitt and 6 goals and 15 points in 23 games with Detroit. Mule on the other hand had 13 goals and 18 points in 16 games (in 2007-08) and 12 goals and 23 points in 23 games (in 2008-09). See the thing about stats is that they are easily manipulated. You went back 4 years for Mule, no one thought much about him 4 years ago. Mule only really blossomed into a star the last few years. In the last two playoff years Mule actually has much better stats. Mule: 2007-08 16 GP, 13 G, 5 A, 18 Pts, +13 2008-09 23 GP, 12 G, 11A, 23 Pts, +8 Totals 39 GP, 25 G, 16A, 41 Pts, +21 1.051 PPG average Hossa: 2007-08 20 GP, 12 G, 14 A, 26 Pts, +8 2008-09 23 GP, 6 G, 9 A, 15 Pts, +5 Totals 43 GP, 18 G, 23 A, 41 Pts, +13 0.953 PPG average Based upon the last two years Mule has the better stats 7 more goals and just as many points in 4 fewer games (and with a better +/-). The best year for comparison I think though is the one year they both played on the same team (thus also against the same teams although on different lines and with different power play and ice times). Mule doubled Hossa in goals, beat him by almost 20% in assists, almost 45% in overall points, and almost 40% better +/- in the same number of games. When you combine that with the fact that Hossa wanted more money I don't think that it is homerism to think Mule might have been a better choice between the two options.

I'll bet that you are probably right, the reporter probably did phrase it that way, but men like Yzerman have the ability to deflect the attention away from themselves and their accomplishments. Kane could have finished with "and I am truly blessed to be part of this team and this organization where I have had the opportunity to succeed." Something similar to that would have come across much better than "and I deserve it."

I'm not denying that Kane's age is an advantage in his favor but Kane's contract is only for 5 years so the comparison should be Kane for the next five years vs. Franzen for the next 5 years which is a much closer call than Kane for the rest of his career vs. Franzen for the rest of his career. The first is a much closer call than the second. That is the key to me. One of the best things about Yzerman, and if flowed down to the entire team, he always showed humility and if your superstar doesn't act like a prima donna and like he deserves everything it makes it hard for lesser teammates to gripe about salary, ice time, lines, power play time, etc. (although as Feds proved it doesn't absolutely prevent it).

Yep, $7.14M through the 2015-16 season, I doubt they can move him and that sure isn't the situation Burke was referring to.

Once again you are a moron. There was no contradiction. The point of the posts were that your question was slanted, unfair, and biased leaving only either the answer you wanted solicited or the impression that the answerer was all for letting guys get hurt. My post merely pointed out you asked a stupid question trying to force a response. I have never changed or hidden the fact that I don't think injuries like the one that happened to Kronner would be eliminated by having an enforcer dressed. If that "exposes" me for what I am, rational, then fine. I prefer that to taking your line of reasoning that you can predict what would have happened had May been in the line up.

It is pathetic that you have to chop up my statement so that you can continue in your ignorance and lies. Your question is like the question "when did you stop beating your wife." You specifically asked is it [my] proposal that the Wings do nothing different to keep people like Laraque from hurting guys like Kronwall? To answer in the negative to that question would be stupid thus my response. However, read the rest of my post that you convienetly left out and you will see that my contention is that cheap shots are a part of the game that happen to all teams and will continue to happen to all teams until the NHL not the Red Wings do something different. To help cleanse you ignorance here is the rest of my post you conveniently left out:

It is also unknown if we would have had a sniper out there maybe just maybe we would have scored before anything happened. It's all conjecture and doesn't add anything because no one knows what would have happened if things were other than what they actually were. My you are dense. Not only can you, once again not refute anything I say so you fail to even defend anything but you also completely miss my entire point. My point is that there is nothing different to do, you create a question that if answered has to be answered in your favor. It would be stupid and irrational to say "yeah what I want is for our guys to take a cheap shot and get injured." The easy and pathetic answer that you spew is "oh if only May had suited up all the world would have been right, there would be no hunger and everyone would be ok." Most likely every single team in this league will have a cheap shot taken against one of their players whether they have an enforcer or not. Teams with enforcers will get cheap shots on their players and so will teams without enforcers. So my answer is YOU ASK STUPID QUESTIONS. I hope you got it that time.

Ok I'll answer again since you can't comprehend. The question is stupid, you made up the question to elicit a particular response. Of course it is not my proposal that the Wings do nothing different to keep people like Laraque from hurting guys like Kronwall. It is my contention that not much will change the fact that players on every team, whether they have enforcers or not, will receive cheap shots and that some times those cheap shots result in injury. The fact that you don't like the result (Kronner getting hurt) doesn't mean that different actions (other than obvious ones like not playing him) would have changed the fact that the cheap shot happened and Kronner was hurt. Laraque is not the slightest bit intimidated by May and I don't think would have changed his behavior in the slightest because May was dressed (he might have fought and then the cheap shot or maybe the cheap shot then fought). You always deal in abstracts that mean nothing because they cannot be proven one way or the other. I do think having a guy like May helps when there is a scrum, provides great entertainment, and is an overall plus for the team BUT I also think your obsession that if we would have just had an enforcer dressed we would have drastically different results to an intentional injury caused by Laraque is silly. I like the fact that we have May on the team, I think he is good for morale, good for energy, excitement, and entertainment. I was thrilled when we signed him and glad that he has been played so often. I think if you can find one that fits your team every team benefits from and should have a fighter. My contention is just that it doesn't change whether or not guys like Laraque will cheap shot whenever they get the whim.

Well Coach Babcock was the one that chose to sit May so it is stupid to use him as the source for your rationale when he chose the lineup. Also, speaking of lying, I specifically stated in my post that you quoted "some due to dirty plays and others due to pure accident" and it is a blatant lie to act as if I said that some of Detroit's injuries were not from accidents. Again, you should be honest about your position then people wouldn't be so confused, Babs is the one that took May out of the lineup but then you say "[g]uys like me and Babs" only when it fits you. Finally, I noticed you didn't actually argue or try to refute what I said just deflected and distracted.