Frozen-Man

That's a pretty big gun to call someone a liar. You make good points and add to the discussion but why do it with name calling and bitterness. It really detracts from your argument.

I agree but I also think that they will both quickly surpass him in salary as well which will make it hard to keep them both in a few years.

:hysterical: QFT :hysterical:

I don't know about you but I think that Leino is playing much better than Ozzy right now and we should trade Ozzy for any other goalie. Just kidding, I am really glad to read anything that isn't guys freaking out and panicking over the goalie situation.

That's the truth!

:clap: :clap: :bad:

That's the truth!

No doubt, I'm not disagreeing that the Wings can afford to lose Sammy, it's just the Sammy sucks lets I can't wait till we get rid of him. I think that there is always the concern with having too much money tied up in too few guys and Sammy is one of those guys that can help fill the depth role without costing too much. I mean you are looking at more than $32.5M locked up next year in 5 guys (and that doesn't include whatever we have to pay Franzen). That is roughly 57% of this years cap (I'm too lazy to figure it out exactly) locked up in 5 guys with the need to sign a lot more with not much money. He is a good veteran player who knows how to play in this system and is on the cheap. The Wings can afford to lose him but he will be missed in terms of depth.

I don't get all the hate for Sammy this year. He is tied with Franzen in points (I know Franzen has more goals but Sammy still has as many points) and has as many goals as Homer and more assists. I know he has played more games than either Franzen or Homer but that is actually a plus for him because he has been more durable this year. He also gets more than 2:30 minutes less ice time per game than Franzen. I'm not saying that he is the best player on the team but he is not going to get a huge pay raise like Franzen will and yet he still puts up points for the team and is ok on defense. I'm not saying he is as good as Franzen or anywhere near as good as Homer but I am saying for what the guy gets paid and what he will likely get paid next year he is a good depth guy.

I agree with your whole post except the fact that the Pistons are really contenders this year. They are 14th in the league in win % and barely above .500 too bad but I don't think they are a serious threat this year without a huge trade or deadline pick up.

Thanks for the encouragement - it was a joy to bring back!

:lol: That's funny I feel the same way about blue M&Ms :lol:

Congrats on the new outlook on life, it will make the world a more enjoyable place for you. Yeah, all the comments are from you. If you click on a member's name next to their post one of the options is to see all the member's posts - that little button has come back to bite many of us here on the butt in the past. Again, truly congratulations on the changes in life, I hope that they serve you well throughout the rest of it. It is amazing how much our lives can change and the effect that has on us as a person.

Thanks, it took me a while to pick out the best stuff because there was so much there. Oh by the way look back up to the end of the first time I quoted him from last year - I do have the turning in of the Red Wings card but it cracks me up so much that here it is again.

I like this thread, it's at least different than most of the others, and like it or not it is a possibility. I don't think that it will happen at all but it is possible that Hossa decides that he would like one of those big $80M 9-10 year deals which we won't offer and that Franzen knowing this is his big chance tests free agency and gets a $5.5-6M contract from some bottom dwelling team. AGAIN I really don't think that there is any way that this happens but it is a possibility and give a good opportunity to look at our other guys especially the GR guys and try to figure out how they could be utilized.

WOW . . . :blink: . . . JUST WOW IS ALL THAT I CAN SAY. Your nuttier than you were after the trade deadline last year. Seriously, who cares how many commercials have Crosby in them - I sure wouldn't think someone without a Red Wings card would care. You've said more crap about this team and organization than any media person I've ever heard. Here are a few examples from last year when you "officially turned in your Red Wings card" whatever that is: This is my favorite though: And a few more - just for humor's sake: So according to your last post I guess you still don't support the Wings and have handed in your super secret decoder ring (I mean Red Wings card) but you want everyone else to show them respect? Me like most here like the team, like the players, like the management, and don't freak out about the rest (especially with all the 9/11 nonsense).

I see your point and don't disagree in the short term but the only one I think we can get for around Flip money is Hudler and I don't think it will be for 4 years. I see him taking a 2 year deal and then when he's not a RFA getting a bigger contract. I know that Flips contract will mean that we cannot keep all three of those guys or probably even two but I'm concerned about what that many longish term big contracts will mean 3 and 4 years from now when some of these great (hopefully) up and coming talents (Ericsson, Helm, Leino, Abdelkader, etc.) will get their pay raises. I think his $3M may look pretty good then. Again, I could be wrong or that could be looking too long term but I think we have to start considering the pay raises some of these younger guys will get in a few years when the other guys are beginning the backside of their careers but still have a pretty big cap hit.

:clap: Exactly, Flip has been put in a position where he is not going to put up monster numbers regardless of his minutes. It is unfair to look at his points compared to Huds and say he isn't filling as valuable a role because they are playing such different roles. I know it is not the general consensus around here but I think he is worth the $3M largely because he is locked up at that price for four more years, and strangely the salary cap constraints are part of why I think he is worth it. You have a guy who understands the game, can play on any line (maybe not a full time 1st line guy but can fill in if needed), can put up a fair number of points (more if given PP time or scoring/playmaking line mates), can play a defensive offensive role, and many think will continue to improve given the increased responsibility/chance. We have 3 guys locked up for at least $6M (cap hit) a year for 3 or more years, plus we would like to add Hossa to that group for about that amount and Lids for at least 1 more year (and hopefully a lot longer although he may take a smaller salary). I think it is very beneficial to have a guy like Flip for another 4 years that can supply stability on the lower lines, no matter what role he is asked to play, for the $3M hit. Just my two cents.

I agree, even if they had a deal with ESPN or someone else where they showed more games I would still get Center Ice because I want all the Wings games, I prefer Mickey and Kenny over any of the National showing commentators, and I want to watch hockey every night of the week even if the Wings aren't on. I hope they can continue to get better and better TV deals and more exposure on a national level but I'll still stick with Center Ice.

Do you ever say ANYTHING positive about this team?

Very well thought out post. I do have to disagree with you to a degree however. Yes Ozzy needs to play better and yes we need him to steal a few goals but we didn't go out and spend $5-6M to get a goalie like Turco we spent less than $1.5M. Kind of like what you were saying about Pav, the Wings pay the guy $6.7M and expect him to play like a $6-7M player which means he is a goal scorer, play maker, or combo of the two. I don't think that you can expect as much from Draper or Samuelsson. Don't get me wrong Ozzy needs to play better (much better sometimes) but the defense is a shadow of what it was last year, Ozzy is not playing well (whether mentally, physically, or whatever something is off) and has to be better but we didn't shell out for a top paid goalie (which was wise I think) but have a goalie who has proven he can win games and Cups (I just hope he gets in the groove in time for the playoffs). Maybe it would help if he sat 4-5 games or something.

:clap: :clap: Excellent post. There is hardly ever a thread about how those guys are not towing the line (and like you I like all those guys) but their play has not been what it should be. Ozzy has not played well this year but he is also the perennial whipping boy for all the problems. If the team hadn't taken so many penalties in the first, or had played the PK well or been defensively sound it wouldn't be an issue. I think part (only part some of the blame does lay on Ozzy not playing well) of the problem is that Ozzy can't rely on his D doing their job which makes it harder for Ozzy to anticipate positioning and what he needs to be doing. The also hang him out to dry where he has little chance to make a stop which in turn he doesn't which in turn further erodes his confidence. People keep saying that is the goalies job to make the hard stops - true enough - however, it is also the defenses job to make sure that the other team doesn't get those quality chances. Neither the defense nor the goalie will ever be perfect in their job so one has to compensate for the other at any given moment in a game. NEITHER THE DEFENSE NOR THE GOALIE HAS DONE THIS. The defense has left the goalies out to dry more times than I can ever remember them doing and the goalies have not been up to the extra challenge (which the need to be) but the defense should do their job and limit the times that they put them in that position. I think that at least as much blame falls on defense as falls on Ozzy (this does not diminish the fact that he needs to be better but merely stating that the defense does too). As to people talking about Ozzy and then comparing him to Nabokov or Turco that is an unfair comparison. Ozzy is making $1.7M this year (cap hit $1.416M) while Nabokov is making $5.5M (cap hit $5.35M) and Turco is making $5.7M (cap hit $5.7M). How is is reasonable to compare those guy's performance with Ozzy's. Lilja has played great for us this year but how far is it to compare him to Andrei Markov, Zdeno Chara, or even Shea Weber. I would still rather have Ozzy for 1.416M than the others for their price tag especially since he is a proven winner (like Mickey Redmond said in the end all he does is win).

This guys a moron, but what do you expect regarding hockey info from ESPN. It would be a travesty if they took fighting out of the game.

Yep should be fun - you know that Downey pretty much has to fight tonight and that's always exciting.

QFT