Frozen-Man

True, I think a combo of the NHL penalty calls to the leading team, the subpar play of Ozzy so far, the subpar play of our defense, and the fact that every team plays the Wings geared up (a statement game to gauge how good they are) has hurt the goals against and the Wings overall play. BUT (and I'm you saying this to you IceMunkee) many here put the blame almost exclusively at the feet of Ozzy and I don't think that is where it should all go.

I don't think many would claim that Ozzy has played good this year - he has not. What many are saying is the D hasn't been good and Ozzy hasn't been good BUT Ozzy is a good goalie. Last year when another goalie was going through a similar slump not many said he had never been good, was one of the worst goalies, or that he didn't deserve his wins or his stats. That is what I don't like, not that people criticize his play lately or think he is in a slump but the contention that he has never been good at all.

Um yeah, reread my post - it was sarcastic. I have been defending Ozzy throughout the thread, that post was mocking others.

As long as we are quoting the Red Wings on how they feel about Ozzy here's what Babcock thinks about him: "I'm not concerned one bit as long as he gives himself a break," said Babcock. "He's a real good goalie, knows how to play. Just by his numbers, you know he knows how to win. But to me, he's been way too hard on himself. Letting one goal affect him mindset instead of just don't let it get under you, don't let it get through you, get on with it. That's how simple it is. He's that good." "Just look at his numbers[?]" THAT STUPID BABCOCK WHAT DOES HE KNOW. Ozzy has always been horrible and has only been propped up by great teams and has rarely been above 90%. I can't believe that Babcock hasn't been fired because of his rose tinted glasses - if he were as smart as some people at LGW he would know that Osgood is so bad that we should call him Osbad, his is not a good goalie, doesn't know how to win, has horrible number, and he's not good at all. :crybaby:

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

My point concerns how you determine who sucks.

If you look Mike Vernon's stats weren't that great with the Wings - I guess he sucked too. 1994-95 GAA 2.52 S% 89.3 1995-96 GAA 2.26 S% 90.3 1996-97 GAA 2.43 S% 89.9

Excellent post! I saw an article not too long ago that stated that the Blackhawks have more than $10,000,000 more than the Red Wings tied up in goalies. If not for that we get no Hossa this year. We have no chance at the forward and defense roster that we have. I think Mickey put it really well last night when he said he may not have the highest save % but he rarely loses. Look at the man's win record. What is he 12th all time. Yeah he really sucks. We could pay 4 or 5 times as much and Ozzy and have a goalie that has never won a cup, has no proven track record of being able to go all the way, and no where near the wins but hey our goalie might have a higher save percentage.

Thanks, that's what I was afraid of but I appreciate the clarification.

I have been wondering and am too lazy to do the research if someone else knows. Everyone keeps saying that the cap is going to go down next year. What if a team has no free agents and is under the cap this year. Then next year the cap goes down to a level that they are over. I assume the team has to trade or waive players to get under the new lower cap, is that correct. If so that is a horrible way to have the CBA set up where a team has to worry about lower caps in the future when they sign players.

I predict 4-1 Detroit Goals by Hossa, Sammy, Z, and Mule (D. Sedin for the Canucks)

:clap:

The important thing in such a contract is the Time Value of Money. It is much better to have more money now and less later than the converse.

I think 3-1 Wings With goals from Mule, Huds, and Z. The lone Ducks goal from Perry.

But again, you think that Mac is a deterrent? Really, you think these tough teams won't play rough if Mac is there?

I agree with this statement but I don't think that Mac changes the equation one bit. None of the tough teams will play any less rough just because Mac is there (that is not really even a knock on Mac I don't think that there are many guys in the NHL that would make the other team play less rough with the Wings.)

And on a team that had plenty of fighters. Oh wait I thought that you said that wouldn't happen, I mean we even had Mac in the game, no Wing should have been touched.

So you want the goal to be to sell out the arena, not to win games? Should we give the Cup to the team that sells the most tickets throughout the season? I mean if that is more important than having a winning season the Cup should go to that team. Also, the Joe sure didn't sound like a funeral during the Cup finals last year, it was pretty loud.

That has nothing to do with it. Most hockey fans don't like the chintzy calls for obstruction, holding, tripping, interference, etc. but this post has been about whether it was better to put Helm in this game. Having Mac on the team or in the game won't result in Bettman being less of a moron, hockey reverting to how it was played or called, more physicality in the the league, or much of anything except the Wings not putting the best product on the ice to win TONIGHT, with the best ability to win according to how rules are called in the "New NHL" and how the game is CURRENTLY played. The situation is not going to change in the near future so put the best team on the ice to win a game tonight not a game 28 years in the past. It's not a matter of preference it's a matter of reality - the game is what it is at the present not what it was in the past - and if we can't deal with that our team won't win.

You know they also used to use sticks that were made of wood and had no curve. Also goalies didn't have masks and there were no helmets. I guess if the Wings reverted back to those things we would be a lock for the Cup. The NHL of 2008 is NOT the NHL of 1980. That is really bad in some ways and really good in others but the REALITY for Holland and Babcock is playing the game under today's structure, setting, rules, interpretations, and style. A team that played like they did in the 80's would never be out of the box. If you don't like how the GAME is played now that is fine (there are things that I don't like about it) but the Wings are going to play a 2008 style game, win lots of games, lots of President's Cups and probably a few Stanley Cups.

Yes, you and the people who agree with you about hockey are the only ones who have every played, everyone else is just guessing based upon NHL2007 video game they play.

Well thought out, logical, and persuasive post. If you can't argue the facts then you should just say that.

:hysterical:

Yeah because Mac (as much as I love him) has offered so much protection. Additionally, Mac fought his last fight not to stand up for a teammate but because he "owed" Darcy one. Hossa knew what he was getting when he came here and - shock- he turned down the Pens to come here. He doesn't seem too sad with his choice. But who knows maybe Babcock and Holland don't have a clue how to do their job. . . wait they win (which is the goal after all). The NHL should change their standings and who gets into the playoffs. The ducks should be in first place right now because they lead the league with 28 fights this season, the Sharks should be fighting for a spot in the playoffs because they are in only 14th place in the NHL in fights (they have 15 fights), and MAN DO THE WINGS SUCK they are the worst team in the NHL with only 6 fights. Kenny should just blow the whole team up and start from scratch building a team around Georges Laraque, Brandon Prust, George Parros, Riley Cote, Ian Laperriere, and Sean Avery (no goalie they hardly ever fight in the NHL) - there wouldn't even be a reason to hold the playoffs just give those 6 guys the Cup to share between themselves (of course if you look at the standings even with all their awesome fights the Ducks have played 3 more games than the Wings, are still down 5 points to the Wings, have scored fewer goals, and allowed more to be scored on them). All I'm saying is that perhaps Mike Ilitch knew what he was doing when he hired Holland, Babcock, and Stevie Y, and perhaps they know a bit more about hockey, how to put a team together, and how to win, than people on this board. If that is not the case go see Mike maybe he'll get rid of those guys destroying the Wings franchise and give you a shot at the helm.

I don't think that your comparison of who has more Cups works with Bourque and Lids either though. Yes Nick led the team and yes he was and is incredible but he led a team with Datz, Z, and a host of other wonderful players. If you take Nick off this team they probably don't win the Cup last year but would still have been one of the best teams the converse is not true (in my opinion) if you take Bourque off of those Boston teams. For example Barry Sanders never got the numbers or championships that Emmit Smith did but he was never behind an offensive line like the Cowboys had (or their many other offensive and defensive threats), it had little to do with the players and everything to do with the team (as a whole) that they were on.