Deke

Babcock solidified his position in my eyes when he was yelling at the Avs assistant coach. That was great. That's what the wings coach needs to be, energetic and provide a coaching presence. Babcock isn't ultimately responsible for half the decisions people in this thread are attributing to him. His voice carries a lot of weight, but you've still got Scotty Bowman & Steve Yzerman in the front offices, among others. The Wings have a lot of coaches, Babcock is just the front man. And he's a damn good one too.

Woops, I miswrote HudlER in pp2 instead of HomER. Easy mistake. One word: Consistency. Any time any coach is ever asked about a good player they will always mention how consistent they are, or how they always give 100% each game. Go read some Babcock quotes about Lidstrom, they are chock full of examples. If Sammy can play well last playoffs, then why hasn't he played well more during the season? If he's played well these past few games, why hasn't he played well most of the season? I don't expect him to be great every game, but he shows potential and then just acts like he doesn't care. Read my previous posts about him. I just don't like the way he presents himself on the ice, I don't like his lack of hustle. I fully believe that he could be a better player, because I've seen it. My theory is the only reason why he's been playing well lately is he's getting threatened by all the roster changes and realizes he may lose his spot to a harder working player. Maybe he doesn't do the same move as much, but he still does it when he crosses the blue line now and again. He plays with Datsyuk and Zetterberg for crying out loud. He can watch them and gain a couple of pointers about how to cross a blue line without a one-two deke, fire the puck wildly in the general direction of the goalie. I'd rather see him try new s*** and fail than watch him do the same move over and over that never works. Even if he is doing something different now, he's tried the same thing for about 65 games. If you try the same thing over and over and expect different results... He has had a decent streak lately, but where is the consistency? It's just like Osgood. Plays a great season, and then as soon as he gets a pay check, oops cold streak, sorry fellas. Maybe that's just a coincidence. Maybe I just don't like watching Sammy roll his eyes when someone tips in his shot and gets credited with the goal instead of him.

Kopecky. He doesn't have the stats to back it up yet, but I sure as hell like his play better than Sammy. Sammy gets to play with zetterburg. A turnip could get points playing with Z on it's wing. Give Kopecky the same shot Sammuelson had and I bet he puts up better numbers. If I evaluate both players based on watching them play, rather than looking at stats on NHL.com. Kopecky is more hustle and doesn't take stupid bad angle shots. Maybe Kopecky wouldn't do as well once you gave him that same shot. But like I said, sammuelson isn't as good as his numbers might suggest, and his numbers suggest that he's not even that good to begin with. That said, I really thought Sammuelson played very well in the last playoff series, I just haven't seen that same level of play this season.

The way Nicky and Dats have been finding him lately I say he belongs on the first line for at least a few shifts. I say swap him and homer around several times a game to keep the other team guessing. At least one of them will no doubt produce some offense. The way Franzen has been playing lately, he's as good as Homer was at the beginning of the season. Maybe even better.

Top 10 on the team, yea big woop. Put any hockey player with the talent detroit has and you are bound to score off of their opportunities. Sammy sure doesn't create his own. Look I just don't like his style of play. He doesn't hustle. He fires low percentage shots. He doesn't complete passes well. He doesn't play D very well. He gets visibly pissed off at homer or franzen if they tip in one of his "slapshots". He does the same damn move every time he brings the puck in. He might have some potential, but I don't see it or like the way he presents himself on the ice. It's almost like he tries harder to make it look like he's making an effort rather than making an actual effort. Try and just watching him when he's out. Don't follow the puck, watch sammy. Then watch another forward. You'll notice sammy's lack of hustle and overall just vanilla, no creativity, mediocre performance.

You can't just create one line and expect it to work every game. Teams have different styles of defense, and teams watch tape and figure out how to stop you. As much as I like the Dats, Z, Homer line I like the creativity of changing the lines on the fly a whole lot more. When Detroit played Edmonton in the playoffs, Babs kept rolling the same lines, with the exact same strategy over and over. I remember screaming at the screen wishing he'd swap out his lines and change up the strategy. Edmonton knew what he was going to do and it cost them an early exit. Babcock learned from this and he plays a much more flexible style now. If a set line isn't working he swaps in different positions on the fly. He'll put half of a line out to make the opponent play a certain unit and then swap out the fowards. Set lines (assuming everyone healthy) I would go with: Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Franzen Cleary, Filppula, Homer Hudler, Sammuelson, Kopecky McCarty/Downey , Draper, Maltby / Drake Alternate lines in case those aren't working: Zetterberg, Franzen, Homer (paired with Lidstrom and Kronwall, Gold medal powa) Filppula, Datsyuk, Cleary PP1 Zetterberg, Dats, Franzen, Lidstrom, Ralfi PP2 Cleary, Filppula, Hudler, Kronwall, Stuart Sammy should not be anywhere near a powerplay or PK line. When he has the puck, he does the same exact move every time. He puts his head down, draws the puck back once, bounches it off the back of his stuck and fires. He passes the puck too wildly and the receipent can't settle it down. On defense, dis poke check and defensive abilities are terrible and he's no hustle.

I'm so sick of all this Pronger bashing in this thread. Pronger suspended for 8 games? More like the Ducks should get an automatic 8 wings for what Pronger is having to go through. You guys just don't understand the challenges Pronger faces. Shame on all of you. Pronger is 6'6'' and ~240 pounds. He isn't of normal height and is clearly overweight. How would you guys feel if you were born with this affliction? Because of his abnormal weight and size, he is constantly being picked on by all of the other hockey players. They do nasty things to pronger like head butt his elbow, or try and trip him by putting thier legs under his skates. When players head butt other players, they usually get thrown out of the game! But when they use their head to make contact with Pronger's elbow, oh well that's Pronger's fault isn't it. When most players put their stick or leg underneath another player, that's tripping! Two minutes! But when it happens to Pronger, they say he's "stomping" on people. This is a double standard that is prejudice against players who are heavy and of abnormal size. Honestly how would you all feel if you were born to be 6'6'' 240 pounds and were FORCED to play hockey for millions of dollars. Pronger didn't have a choice in his life. You guys did. Shame on all of you for saying bad things about Pronger. He's a hero and should be given an award for playing hockey despite his natural afflictions. The Ducks should also be awarded for giving this poor man a chance to play in the national hockey league. What a fine organization they are.

He doesn't hustle at all. When he goes in on a player who has the puck he always stops short and just reaches in with his stick. He doesn't actually make an effort to poke check it, just give the appearance of it. And while he's outstretched, the player moves away much faster as sammy doesn't have the balance to get back in his stride. He's usually the last forward back to the defensive zone. Hustle? I've seen coaches with no skates on hustle on the ice better than sammy. Decent shot? Have you seen his shot percentage? What universe are you watching the red wings play in?

My HOPE is that it's a genius move by Babcock. As the Wings enter the playoffs, their opponents will be studying lots of tape on what they do on the power play. Hopefully Babcock is putting Sammy in the live game while practicing a whole different powerplay. Somehow I doubt the above is true, I really hope Sammy isn't quarterbacking the powerplay when it counts.

Vancouver would be the best first round. After lighting up Luongo, the next 3 goalies they face will seem like AHLers.

Paging Mr. Cleary. Paging Mr. Cleary. Your are needed during the playoffs.

Simon had 8 career suspensions. Pronger has 7. Please explain how this makes them different. The title of this thread is Pronger at it again. Check the first couple of pages in this thread, you can see Pronger's rap sheet there. It's not short. The TSN video anchor talks about how dirty Pronger is before even showing the clip. Anything less than 30 games means the NHL is playing favoritism and there's really no argument around that. He has the history. It was clearly intent to harm. He has been suspended before and it hasn't taught him a lesson. An example needs to be made right here and right now that says No player in the NHL, no matter who, what salary they make, how many points they have, what team they play for, captain or not, no matter what will be suspended by the NHL for this kind of play.

Apparently they are just trying to stop the bad disliked players from hurting the good ones. For whatever reason, pronger is liked by some "fans" and therefore the NHL won't come down on him. It's crap and it really hurts the integrity of the sport.

Yup, it can be hard to keep up with 13 pages of Pronger bashing though. As much as I like to.

Crazy forum errors, duplicate posts, mods please delete.

Yup, it can be hard to keep up with 13 pages of Pronger bashing though. As much as I like to.

My fault, then. Apolgoies to the OP, but that still goes for anyone who defends anyone who stomps.

That's retarded. Push the guy then. Give him a face wash. Punch him if you have to. Do things normal hockey players do. What you DON'T do is use the sharpened steel blade on the bottom of your foot to do anything but skate with. Ever. Period. End of story. There is no circumstance ever which warrants a hockey player using their skate for anything but skating. If you don't agree, get the f*** out of my sport. It doesn't matter if this was pronger or datsyuk. If any of the wings did this I would come down twice as hard on them because you don't expect it from them. What is starting to piss me off more than how much I hate pronger's style of play are the fans who defend his actions.

Absolutely ridiculous. This thread makes me like Cleary even more. He's one of the few dudes to have the balls to fight pronger. And at a severe height and weight disadvantage. Hopefully the league responds to this and at least suspends him or publicly says why they won't. They owe the fans at least that much. Refs who won't call this s*** shouldn't get paid for the day's work. That's the only way this crap is going to get fixed.

Yea but it'd still be a complete waste. He can't learn anything else in the AHL. He can dominate with his size. That doesn't work in the NHL, so he needs to learn defensive awareness. He's going to do that by playing with the leagues top D lines. The faster you put him in the NHL, the faster he's going to learn and turn that big body into a great defensive player. If a prospect is going to stagnate in the minor leagues, you don't keep them there.

Exactly. If Detroit tries to keep Ericsson in the AHL again next year, some team with a defense gap WILL pick him up. He's just got too much potential. He may not be up to par with Detroit's defense yet, but he will learn quickly playing with the best in the biz. He won't learn anything else by playing in the AHL, he can just use his size in the AHL.

From what I've seen, I think he should have a spot next year. He isn't prime time yet, but a guy like him isn't going to learn much more in the AHL. He can take much more advantage of his size playing with the grifs. He needs to learn smarter D where he has to use other skills instead of just his size. He won't learn that playing with the grifs, but he will playing with some of the top Defensive players in the game. I like how he plays defense deep. What he really lacks, and needs to work on, is getting caught out of position. He makes desperate plays trying to get back to defense from the neutral zone and it costs him. He just needs to watch his offense more and if they don't have it, move back to D a step sooner. He's got a wicked blast and a suprising amount of hustle for a guy his size. Just put the defensive awareness in place and he's has the potential to become a top player. There is nothing left for him to learn in the AHL, bring him up. The question is, if there is only one spot does he get it or does Meech. Meech has been very impressive the game time he's got. Not a bad spot for Detroit to be in, no?

I just got done watching the highlights of last nights game (damn NHLnet) and Kopecky got cheapshotted again! Kopecky is a great young player, he's all hustle, and I really love watching him try and prove himself to the Detroit organization. He's always been picked on a little bit, but lately as he's been getting more and more ice time he's been getting cheapshotted once a game. And not just crybaby stuff either, he's taking sticks to the face, elbows, and just getting flattened in open ice. He's had to go off the ice doubled over at least 3 times that I can remember in the past couple of weeks. I know all younger guys in the NHL get picked on, but Kopecky really isn't that young. He's had a few seasons. And I don't see him throwing cheap shots or bad hits to earn all this attention either. I'm starting to the think the rest of the NHL hates Czechs. But I can't figure out why. Hudler gets picked on these days too. What gives? Why do you guys think he gets beaten down every game?

The best is the FLU. Usually means healthy scratch but they wanted to save the player some face. Or guilt free vacation time for the player. Otherwise most players play through the flu. Nicky did this year and you could really tell he wasn't 100%, but still one of the best on the ice.

I agree with you, there's little point in speculating on Mac's play and our questions will be answered when he finally is dressed. But then again, I'm bored at work, and that's what forums are for! Watching all the interviews with Mac, about him talk about family, sobriety, and his renewed passion for hockey makes me think he might not be the same player he used to be, meaning he might take more of an offensive role. Then I take another look at the picture of him knocking some minor league kids tooth out and wonder. All we have to do is see how many pieces of gum Babcock has chewed before Mac hits the ice. Then again, it's entirely possible that he might start on the grind line that has been taking the opening face off every game for a while now. That's what I would do if I was Babcock. That would instill confidence. The other team would think he's back and ready to play if he was on the opening face off. I'd play him a lot of minutes too, to get him into his best shape. If he doesn't shape up, oh well, no risk was taken. If he does, then maybe now the Mac of old, or damn near it, will be back.