ManLuv4Clears

That may be the case, if so, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a little bummed.

Can't feel the new anouncer... just can't... he's no Bud.

True True. Thanks Opie, I needed this to get back into reality. Back to work now, have a good day folks.

Take note this was a hit in front of the referee that was not penalized. I remember a lot of people on these boards stating they thought it was a legal hit. Should players have to pay the piper for legal hits? If that were the case Kronwall would always have to answer the bell. Downey went after Laperriere because he stated people shouldn't be running 5-time Norris Trophy defensemen. I agree, but again not a cheap shot. My argument is deterrence for cheap shots and liberties. We view things differently and that's what these boards are for. We can try and sell each other up and down the river, but unfortunately people aren't going to change sides on what they believe in.

I told myself I wasn't going to post anymore in this thread, but there is some good conversations going on and I wanted to touch real quick on deterrence. All the anti-enforcers on these boards state that there is no such thing as a player deterring another from cheap shots or runs. Quick, true story, I was at the first game against Nashville last year and Tootoo was on the ice for the first time. Once he got out there, Babcock immediately sent the fourth line out and Downey went straight up to Jordin and starting talking to him behind the play. They could have been rapping about the weather or good bars to go to in the area, but alls I know is that Downey said a few things, challenged him, Tootoo declined and skated away. Mind you, all this was not caught on camera. The rest of the game Tootoo wasn't pulling his typical BS and for the most part was calm against us for the rest of the season. I have a feeling Aaron probably told him that his s*** won't be tolerated this year and if he does pull anything he'll get his ass beat. All that said, I don't need to see brawls or fights every game, I just like the comfort in knowing we have someone there if an opposing player is feeling like taking liberties.

Wings 3 - Leafs 0 Hank x2, and Homer Hey Folks, there was a link floating around last year that you could post into Windows Media Player and it would give you the Versus feed. I reformatted my computer and no longer have it and since WOW sucks and doesn't have Versus, can any of you be kind enough to post the link if you still have it? Thanks ahead of time!!

Notice I didn't say I agreed with him or disagreed with him just that I dislike when people use hypotheticals when trying to make a point, and you did 3 times. Unfortunately, compared to your position, his defense does hold more weight with me because the season that the Wings had "an enforcer playing 50 meaningless games in the regular season" they did complete the task of winning the cup. That is fact, like the 4 seasons before when there wasn't a legitimate enforcer in the lineup and they didn't bring Lord Stanley home. We can go 'round and 'round about this, but neither you or I will make the line-up decisions, so time will tell with what happens this year. Like yourself, I'm hoping for a repeat, but when stars like Lidstrom publicly say they support having an enforcer in the line-up, that's going to hold more meaning to me than what some people on these boards say.

Whether I agree with uk's point or not, I hate when people use "could have," "would have," "should have" points. That's like saying Pittsburgh would have turned around the series and won the cup last year because they got a bad bounce and "should have" scored on their last second chance in game 6. I respect your opinion, but not the "what if" defense.

Unfortunately with the sites out there right now you will be paying more than face value for any ticket for tomorrow's game. In fact, ticketmaster may be one of the few where you will be able to find tickets at face value this year. I buy from a friend of a friend that has season tickets and from on eBay. In both cases I paid anywhere from $5-$20 a ticket over face value for the convenience and the guarantee of getting good seats. Last year I got lucky a couple times on eBay where people were just trying to dump tickets and they were selling them undervalued, but those were late notices and weekday games. Not to ruin your hopes, but I have a feeling it will be tough to get fair priced tickets this year because ticketmaster appears to have a lot of games sold out and all the brokers will be trying to sell way over value due to the Stanley Cup.

A little meat in that line-up, too bad it's not being broadcast on Fox Sports Detroit. Instead we have to watch the bum Tigers.

Dennis Rodman couldn't hit a shot to save his life, but he was still an important part of the Pistons' success in the late 80's and early 90's. Old analogy and basketball I know but I'm trying to work at the same time as posting so my brain is not all here.

Good point. I guess management will have to make the decision on whether they want Helm and Lenio taking up 4th line minutes with the big boys or getting 20+ down in GR. Time will tell. The powers that be put together a successful product thus far so I have no doubt they will continue to do so.

I agree with your opinion and logic, but players on the 4th line whether it's Downey or someone else rarely play more than 5-7 minutes a game. In a perfect world with no salary cap you could fill your roster with the type of players you describe, but in today's NHL you have to fill those 4th line spots with dependable character guys.

I don't have a doubt that having a legitmate enforcer last year contributed to the team's overall success. People will say Downey didn't play in the playoffs therefore he has no reason to make the roster. The regular season and the playoffs are two entirely different ball games. I have a feeling management is leaning towards a skilled forward, but it doesn't hurt to have someone there to stick up for your star players during the long grind. There are many factors that make a team successfull and scoring isn't the only one.

Good read. Happy to see Kyle has the dedication to the team, however I just don't see him as being able to enforce a middle weight or be someone the other team is going to be intimidated by on the ice. Time will tell though, the Wings still have Downs and Mac and could probably be in a worse situation when it comes to having to enforcer.

HAHA, no worries brother, just like email, posts can be interpreted many different ways. I just enjoy the civil conversation that keeps me from being productive at work.

Needed that comic relief, good post

Opie I think we may have had this conversation before, and forgive me if I came across sounding like having a fighter is the solution to selling out the Joe. I was simply stating that particular factor (lack of an enforcer), just like the economy is going to keep people from going, but these aren't the only reasons. We could sit here and name off probably 10 different scenarios that would contribute for or against getting butts in the seats, I'm just saying that having a fighter may fill an extra 200-300 seats, just like a better economy may help fill 1000 or more. I'm not for or against a fighter, I'm just pro entertainment. To even play devil's advocate towards myself, say we dropped a popular 3rd line player for an enforcer, that may deter that fan base from going to game that loves this type of player and is against the violent aspect of the game. It's turning into a vicious cycle here, and the point of my earlier rant was to simply say that there is not "1" reason people aren't going to the games in the regular season. To respond to your post quickly as well, you make all valid points. The lockout did hurt tremendously; you will find however that the availability of lower bowl seats is more prevalent these days. Pre-lockout, you couldn't go on to ticketmaster and have the option of getting these seats, nowadays they are readily available, and I think that shows that the corporate demand for seats is falling as well. All this said, I do think the average number of ticket sales will be up next year, due to the Hossa signing and being defending Stanley Cup champions. As for sell-outs, we'll have to wait and see.

To say this is the sole reason that the Joe isn't full during the regular season is both general and broad. Is this a factor that the Wings don't sell out every game? Absolutely, however you can't attribute this one factor as the only reason for the lack of sell-outs. The bum Lions sell out every game, the Pistons are over 95% capacity on a regular basis, and I've been trying to get a set of 10 tickets together to any Tiger game possible for my family this season and have had no luck; and they play 82 home games! One can't disagree that the economy in-conjunction with the ticket prices keep people from going to the Joe, however Detroit and it's metro area are blue collar. They love their North American stars and their occasional scuffle, the Wings' style of hockey conforms to fans like you and I who simply love the game, hell, I went to 8 games this year and would have went to more if my schedule would have let me. The fair-weather blue collar fan can't justify filling the seats if the entertainment value (in their mind) isnt there. If it was, there's no doubt in my mind you would see many more seats filled on a regular basis. As for sell outs, probably still not, but not as many empty seats as you see now if the team was a little more physical.

Right on target again. As you mentioned in your earlier post, society has just gone a different direction the last 15 years. Maybe some day we'll get back to athletes giving a s*** and fans being a little less sensitive about drama and a little physicality.

Hearing that interview brought back some memories. I think I may have to hit Border's up as well.

Well said Opie, the NBA analogy is a perfect example as well. I guess I'm going to just have to live in the memories of when sports were a little more rough-edged. I'm not looking for all out brawls, but a little physicality, emotion, and blood, sweat and tears never hurt anybody. To hell with the Soccer Mom.... unless she's hot of course

This is what made the game great and made me fall in love with it. Unfortunately the transition into the 90's with the Bettman era has changed the game forever, and in a negative way IMO.

Good posts both Hank and Opie

There are a number of reasons for the empty seats, that said you can't attribute just one and say "This is the reason people aren't going." There are a lot of good posts in this thread identifying reasons for the lack of sell outs. There are some people that aren't going to go because they're being more money conscious with this rough economy, there are people that aren't going to go because they can't relate to Europeans, there are people that won't go because they're fair weather fans, and there are people that won't go because the Wings aren't as physical a team as they've been in the past. All of these factors will make a difference in ticket sales. With the high prices of tickets, one has to justify the dollar for dollar entertainment value for going to a game. I went to 8 games this year and will probably do the same next season, but I like many of you consider myself a diehard fan. The LGW board members don't populate all of metro Detroit, if we did, hypothetically speaking, more games would sell out.