GreatBallsOfFire

Half the Pens team was not ready to shake hands when the line started, you can tell from the replay Lidstrom repeatedly waits a few seconds before guys continue to join the line late. Crosby was not the only one to join the line late. It isn't Crosby's fault Orpik and Gonchar started the handshake before he got there to lead it, they should have waited for their Captain before starting it. I was disappointed the way the whole handshake mishap went down also, but it is a crazy couple minutes there after winning the Cup as Wings fans know all to well, and to blame Crosby for intentionally disrespecting anyone on the Wings is unfair. Keep in mind he is only 21 and may have been a little overcome with the enormity of the situation of finally realizing his lifelong dream and lost focus for a bit there, but it was certainly not intentional and if he is lucky enough be on the winning side yet again in the future I can guarantee he makes leading the handshake a priority no matter the situation. He respects the game and all of its traditions as much as any player out there.

Amen. You are a true Wings fan. Unlike most of the other pretenders on here. Great season and a great Finals both this year and last year. Wings should hold their heads high. I'm sure you can agree the refs sucked both years unfortunately. Hossa was a huge disappointment for you guys and in the end I think you probably would've won this thing without him as hard as that is to believe. He is just a complete gutless bum and there is no way you should resign him after his performance in the playoffs and the Finals. Hopefully he never wins a Cup and rots the rest of his career in Florida or Los Angeles.

Good to see at least a couple Wings fans that can look at this situation objectively, too bad you are outnumbered 10 to 1. The Crosby hate is as usual out of control. It is amazing that people think he actually enjoys having to put up with the gazillion interviews he is forced to do with the media asking the same questions over and over and over anywhere he goes while trying to lead his struggling team successfully as a 21 year old captain. It is way more a hinderance than an advantage in the long run. The Detroit suspensions are not out of line. These guys clearly knew the rules and decided to skip anyways, no big deal. They deserve the rest and their team is in a spot in the standings where missing a game will not make or break their season in the least. They understand this, but apparently most Wings fans do not. If they were struggling to make the playoffs like Crosby and the Pens I have a feeling they would have made a bit more effort to make an appearance this weekend. If they want to skip the game and spend time with their families even if they aren't injured that badly that is fine too, just don't cry about the 1 game suspension as a result. They have earned the right to skip it by their superior play yet again through the first half of the year, and Holland is right to have their backs as he should also, but he probably should've added that they are fine with the rule and Lidstrom and Datsyuk will benefit from the extra game rest anyways. Instead he kind of came off as trying to pick a fight with the league concerning the whole situation. Bettman had to put this rule in to try and prevent players from needlessly skipping what they view as a big night to showcase the league. They have had too many players skip in the past for no good reason and it was embarrassing. Everyone is making a way bigger deal out of this than it needed to be and it will be quickly forgotten once the weekend is over with.

You left out one MAJOR reason as well which is more important than all the others: 8. He led the league in scoring last year and would have done so AGAIN this year had he not missed 30 games due to injury. People act like its some huge stretch to call him the best player in the league right now when it isn't and his stats back that up. That being said, stats don't win you the Cup and that is a lesson Crosby had to learn firsthand this year. Detroit had the better team even though Pittsburgh had the best individual player on the ice. Sometimes that happens. Those that can't seem to deal with Crosby being one of THE dominant players in the league are going to find it awefully painful to watch hockey for the next 15 years because he is only going to get better and better year after year so get used to his ugly little mug. Its here to stay.

The call against Draper to give the Pens a 5 on 3 Wed. night was legit. It was a dirty two handed hit to the back of Gonchar's head into the glass with intent to injure which Draper probably did hoping he'd get away with it because Detroit was already down a man and on top of that he knew Gonchar was still hurting from his hard crash into the boards in game 5. Draper should be ashamed of himself after that little stunt, but I'm sure Wings fans will retaliate with the Roberts hit on Franzen being dirty, which it was, but probably not as vicious as two handing a guy's head into the glass from behind. Credit the refs on that for making the right call to protect a player from injury whether it resulted in a 5 on 4 or a 5 on 3. On the whole, I think most Pens fans would agree the officiating really sucked this series, but they did not decide it. Detroit knew exactly how far they could push the refs and still get away with enough obstruction to control the series and the Pens should learn how to do the same for next year.

How convenient that he decided to try and disguise his whining and take a jab a Therrien at the same time. Thats the mark of a great coach for sure. We shall see how things go tonight if the Pens win yet another one. Then we'll really get to see what a standup kind of guy he is. I admit both the OT penalties were questionable, but Babcock should've taken the high road and not made excuses for his team. They had plenty of chances to win before the Pens ended it.

He dragged himself down. Read his quotes. Its all there word for word. "I'm going to try what the other guy has been trying all series" Admit it. Get over it. Get off Therrien's back. He was pissed off at what he was seeing as well in the first 2 games and knew he had to speak up for his team and address it, just like Babcock did.

He's already done it! Thats the whole point of this thread! You can debate all you want who whines better, but the fact is they both whine and its about time Detroit fans admit it and quit whining about all of Therrien's whining.

Ask and you shall receive. Everyone on here said it wouldn't happen, but it just did. What else is there to say. When Therrien does it he is a "whiny b....." When Babcock does it he is "the man" and is "fired up." Whining is whining. Babcock is a great coach, but put him in an even more desperate situation like being held scoreless and down 2-0 in the biggest series series of your career, and he'd most probably down the same exact thing as Therrien considering that he's whining about a 3 OT game that his team had tons of chances to win and could not convert on them, and his team is up 3-2 in the series still. But he still sees the need to complain. Now lets play some hockey.

My understanding was that it was simply a mutual understanding that Therrien and Crosby came to. I do not know for a fact if he did request it, but I could be wrong or perhaps it did happen behind closed doors, but if that was the case I never heard that rumor to be confirmed. I've seen enough of Crawford in this league also to have gained a strong dislike for his tactics and would agree with you there, but I don't see Therrien as doing the same.

Your comments concerning Therrien are way off base in my opinion, but there are many Pens fans who would love to see him get the boot as well even with taking us to the Finals. He may not be as good as Babcock who I respect a lot, but he's done a hell of a job turning this team around from last to first in the East in just 2 and a half years. Yes, having Crosby, Malkin, Fleury, and Hossa now has made the job easier, but most of our players are just kids so to get them motivated to play as a team on such a consistent basis over 82 games and at such a young age has been impressive. I understand how he rubs so many Wings fans as a whiny "you know what" with so many comments in this series, but I really think he was left no choice but to make those comments with his team down 2-0 and on the verge of a sweep if something drastic was not said/done. You can state Babcock would never have done the same, but we'll never know the truth to that question really. I tend to believe he may have been forced to do the same. Anyways, I would say to forgive him if he lost his cool there and said the wrong things, but if you heard him over the past 2+ years he really is a pretty funny, likeable guy who has really connected with this team. His english still isn't perfect either which you might be able to tell, so sometimes things come out a little different than I think he means at his press conferences, but after listening to them on a consistent basis I really have come to appreciate his approach to coaching the game. Don't forget as well, that we were without Crosby AND Fleury for significant portions of this season and Therrien still had the Pens winning on a consistent basis because of his coaching ability. Not to mention Gary Roberts and Mark Eaton were out of the lineup for most of the year, two guys who we were counting on to play some quality minutes for us. In the end, these are just a couple reasons why I stand behind Therrien even though his style may be a bit unorthodox and his press quotes may be a bit crazy at times. He knows the game of hockey well and the team is behind him 100%. As for Crosby and his perceived inability to lead this team, I think a better question would be who should get the C instead. There really isn't anybody that deserves it more than Crosby which is why he received it I think. Malkin can't speak English, Roberts just got here last year, Malone or Gonchar might be possible candidates, but they don't seem to be good fits IMO. Gonchar is too quiet a guy, and coming into this season Malone was on his way out the door because he was performing way below expectations. Staal is too young, Sykora just arrived here, Talbot is a 3rd liner, Scuderi and Whitney have nowhere near the talent to be the leader of a team for the most part. So it all boiled down to Sidney being the logical choice which is why Pens fans defend him even though he may not show the maturity of Zetterberg, Lidstrom or Datsyuk. How can he when he's only 20 years old? Gretzky, Lemieux, and I guess I'll throw Howe in there too (since this is a Wing board) were not leading their teams to the Cup Finals at such a young age let alone the Captain of the team. Give him a little credit for the job he's done, even if it doesn't end with him raising the Cup over his head (which it still may of course). [Not certain about Howe's career, someone correct me if I'm wrong].

Like all the Detroit fans and media did by proclaiming the series over before it really was?

A pity all the same.

shoulda...woulda...coulda.... Try giving the Pens a little more credit maybe. As of right now you are merely 1 game better than they are.

So sorry your big party had to be cancelled. What a pity.

I'll go with "almost never" for $500 Alex. Sue me.

Yeah, but what good is it being sold out if a ton of Pens fans are there which is what happened by all accounts. Those tickets should've been bought up by Wings fans, not Pens fans, why weren't they??? The pre-sale tickets did not go that fast at all. I was checking them and there were $200 seats available for quite a while. As I stated before, I'm not attacking Wings fans for their dedication in the least. I know they've sold out for many, many years now and have great fans that support them. I am defending the Pens and their loyal followers which are being unjustly abused on here.

Any goal scored with a 2 goal lead or bigger in the final minute of play is definately garbage in my book. An empty netter up by only 1 is more important for sealing the deal as you state, but still garbage in terms of WHO scored it since the net is left undefended. I was against giving Crosby the Captaincy this year as well considering how young he was, but its hard to argue with the job he's done leading his team to the SCF in only his 3rd year in the league. I don't really know what if anything was said to Z at the end of the game so I can't comment on its relevance. Maybe it looked bad but I'd say that kind of thing happens a lot in this league. Sid is a fiesty guy and hates to lose, so maybe he was just letting off a little steam there. As for whether he will give credit to Detroit at the end I can almost guarantee that, although for Wing fans I'm not sure why they give a damn anyways what happens since raising the Cup means everything compared to what Crosby thinks of his opponent after its all over. And just to let everyone know too, take a big guess what the quotes were from Sidney and the entire Pens team when we were steamrolling our way to the finals on the winning side of every game....exactly the same credit giving as Detroit players and coaches give to the Pens right now, big surprise. It is infinitely easier to give credit and accolades to your opponent when your on the winning side than vice versa, just keep that in mind when you want to micro-analyze every little quote coming out of the players mouths.

This thread really helped separate the blind homer Wings fans from those that actually know a thing or two about the game of hockey in general. Thanks a bunch.

HaHa. You got me there. Makes it even more garbage/irrelevant. Garbage. Irrelevant. Who cares what word you want to use. I like garbage because it sounds more meaningless which was my point in this argument. If you want to use irrelevant be my guest, although I understand the distinction between the two if you want to get technical. I refer to empty net goals all the time as garbage goals as do many other hockey fans.

Okay, I'll just say Z then like everyone else here instead of spelling it out and making a minor typing error.

I was about to compliment you on a great post telling it like it is, until I got to the end and you started the name-calling as is par for most of this site it seems. Crosby did not ask to be the savior for the league, it is being thrust upon him. He does not buy into the hype about how great he is, he knows he still has to win the Cup to prove it. He talks about this point all the time, but most outsiders don't hear those quotes. Whether he is better than Zetterberg, Iginla, Thornton is all debatable. Tell me you don't think if Crosby were playing on the Wings right now in place of Zetterburg with Detroit's great defense and system that they would not be 1 win from the Cup? Crosby knows that it takes a great team to win the Cup, not just a great player, and this series so far has proved that Detroit is the better team. He would be just as successful if not moreso than Zetterburg if their roles were reversed right now.

Well the Detroit pre-sale password ticketmaster was all over the Pens boards/internet/radio and people were buying tickets then like candy. How you didn't hear about that is unexplainable. If Detroit fans wanted tickets to the finals in Detroit it seems like they were easily obtainable, unlike games in Pittsburgh. I understand that this is likely due to winning 3 cups in the last 10 years, but it still exists nonetheless. Can't say the same wouldn't/didn't happen in Pittsburgh after we won 2 cups in 91+92.

By garbage I was referring to the fact it was scored with 13 seconds left in a 3-1 game that was already decided and had zero effect on this series. Thought this was pretty clear, but its okay if you need me to explain it. Zetterberg is a great player, not saying he isn't. He doesn't need to be dominant in this series because the whole Detroit team is very good. Crosby is not god. He has never said he is. He is extrememly humble. He practically won game 3 on his own and led the team like a great leader does. His goals were not garbage at all, they were critical to the game and to getting the win. My point is that he doesn't need to kiss any Red Wing's behind at this point because he's pissed off at being down 3-1 right now, especially in the postgame press conf. immediately following the game. You will see how pissed off he is in game 5. That's why he's such a great competitor. Of course he's not going to be as mature at the age of 20 compared to when he's 30, who is? His whining to the refs is completely overstated, but I'm a Pens fan so there's no way I can be objective on this point especially on a rival fan's board. He is the captain of the team and it is his job to "work" the officials just like every other captain does. Just cuz he's talking to the refs doens't mean he's whining.

You guys need to give the hockey IQ joke a rest. There are many knowledgable Penguin fans and their passion for their team is clearly evident by how loud Mellon Arena has been in these playoffs. We have had 60+ straight sellouts there now and the waiting list for season tickets is now approaching 2,000 people. Don Cherry called it the loudest arena in the league for game 3. Compare that with The Joe where you can hear a pin drop at times and you had 6 people in line for SCF tickets. I know Detroit has a very knowledgable fanbase and rabid fans too and has sold out games for the past 10 plus years, but Pittsburgh is not far behind them and deserves more credit for their hockey knowledge overall. Its not easy being down 3-1 and I have a feeling the whining would be at an equal or greater level if our positions in this series were reversed as some of the more rational posters on here have already admitted. It is a natural human reaction to losing.