Doc Holiday

I said he was what the Wings needed.

He should marry Dr. Rhamani.

He's played better from my perspective, but that isn't saying too much.

"Some guy on Yahoo" Brilliant.

Please point out to me where I said "average" in regards to Howard. If we ignore what I said, we can say whatever we want!

Didn't help that line-mate Filpulla had broken his wrist subsequently after his good start.

Argument to the authority really doesn't help your case when the same authority contradicts himself the year previous. Also the entire point is that maybe an enforcer doesn't prevent EVERYTHING, but it seems like his "enforcing" has been a non-factor this season. Sure he is a workhorse who helps the fourth line and is entertaining as hell, but I would never look to him as someone who "keeps players protected." Also regarding "exhaustion" as a major contributing factor: Why was Vancouver so injured? Dec 8, 2009: Alexander Edler - Upper-body injury (day-to-day) Nov 25, 2009: Rick Rypien - Lower-body injury (day-to-day) Nov 4, 2009: Steve Bernier - Flu (day-to-day) Oct 31, 2009: Michael Grabner - Fractured ankle (IR) Oct 29, 2009: Alexandre Bolduc - Shoulder (IR) Oct 27, 2009: Roberto Luongo - Fractured rib (IR) Oct 27, 2009: Ryan Johnson - Upper-body injury (IR) Oct 24, 2009: Kyle Wellwood - Broken right big toe (IR) Oct 20, 2009: Rick Rypien - Sore groin (day-to-day) Oct 12, 2009: Sami Salo - Sprained right MCL (IR) Oct 9, 2009: Daniel Sedin - Broken left foot (IR) Sep 29, 2009: Jannik Hansen - Right hand (IR) Sep 28, 2009: Mathieu Schneider - Shoulder surgery recovery (IR) Sep 13, 2009: Pavol Demitra - Torn left rotator cuff (IR) They had it worse than Detroit. In fact a good portion of the league is injured this year. It's not just the teams that have made it deep consistently.

I never said anyone was delusional (perhaps I did, but I would find it silly for anyone to consider Howard a future Vezina quality goaltender at this point). I never brought up his "Vezina potential" based on this thread, either. All I said that was Howard did what was needed and didn't "save" the game. The Blues had some good chances but didn't carry the play or provide a large amount of high quality scoring chances. I don't believe the Blues had a large amount of scoring chances. That, of course, is debatable. Well it's not like he could have invented Blue's scoring chances out of nowhere. He played almost as good as he could, but that doesn't make him a gamesaver. It made him a game-helper (yes I'm inventing my own phrases). Sometimes the goaltender doesn't HAVE to be amazing to have one goal scored against him. Happens to the best of them. No, Opie. You are taking my statements way out of context. My "prognosis" is that Howard has the potential (after watching him improve) to become a consistent NHL starter, but isn't there yet. Of course that is not a problem because he doesn't need to be as a rookie. I do believe Howard has helped the Wings defense when it comes to statistics, though the amount can be debated considering the teams Howard has played and how many quality scoring chances Howard has faced (for the sake of the discussion I am going to let that be). I also do not believe that the numbers are majorly affected by Howard's play. I think the defense has vastly improved since the beginning of the year and they have played a much more disciplined game. The fact that Howard is a Conklin-lite doesn't hurt either, obviously. Can we just leave the "Vezina" argument out of this thread? My response to GMR didn't have anything to do with that and I really don't care if you or I brought it up because it is a non-issue.

But in that thread SOMEONE did. And I did not respond to you directly in that post, yet you bring up the fact that I am trying to predict the future based on that. The fact of the matter is my prediction is correct based on the information provided. Perhaps I should wait before saying that Hudler is not going to be a consistent 100+ point getter? My entire point was to say that people need to make sure they don't assume Howard is going to be much more than a consistent NHL starter. They need him to keep them in games, and he has been. You even said they needed him to play well, which is what I was agreeing with. And I have not once said he isn't improving, so I don't see your point here. I never said average now did I? Detroit doesn't need an average goaltender. It was the original "Howard rox" thread in which I was chastised (possibly by you) for responding to a specific "VEZINA YES" poster. I do not believe the defensive stats this season are simply because of Howard, which is why I responded to GMR in THIS THREAD. No? The team needs its stars to play like stars. It needs its role guys to play like role guys. It needs its goalies to keep them in games. Howard did not play his best game last night but he played very well, and it kept Detroit in the game. That's what the team needed. Stop with the strawman claims, already.

You expect Howard to be a Vezina candidate? Because there were posters pegging him as such. Please go on and explain why that is, since I have yet to hear anything backing up that statement. And that is because Bure showed that he was one of the more dominant forwards in the league when he played. Howard is not a goaltender playing like a Vezina goaltender but may get injuries in his career. He is a rookie who started out struggling mightily but has picked up his game so far. Nothing about his play shows Vezina quality or even top 10 in the league quality. Never said he wasn't. Never denied that either. Excellent retort.

It is accurate. How many "game-breaking" saves did Howard have last night? And do not mention the shot that went into his armpit a few seconds after he was already down on the ice. It was a great desperation play but nothing more than that.

Sure as hell isn't prime.

Didn't say that pal. I have been happy for Howard's play thus far and think he is doing very well. Did I blame Howard for the loss? Nope. HMMMMMMMMM Hey, forgive me for saying that Howard has not proven thus far that he should be considered a Vezina candidate, but I guess it is easier to say "You don't know he won't!" instead of giving me something that might make me think he has that potential. He won't be a Roy or Hasek. As much as you don't like it that's the reality. Doesn't make Howard an awful goaltender. Doesn't make his efforts this season any less of a big deal. Kinda my opinion on the subject, but since I applied that to the future you seemed offended.

Funny how people forget that Williams was playing pretty well before he got injured.

Howard was decent, but it isn't like he was stopping multiple breakaways and cross ice passes. He did exactly what was needed. Nothing more. Nothing less.

I think I'm jumping on the "need moar enforcerz" bandwagon. Since this team has no chance of winning, I'd rather we beat every single team to a pulp for moral victories.

Yeah, and they lost the majority of their games in that span. Crosby played like garbage, and they did not look like a great team. Malkin came back and they started playing better. Hmmmm.

I find it funny how Carman gets blasted for the same outlandish sarcasm I use. 2008-2009: "Trade Osgood for pucks!" 2009-2010: "Trade Datsyuk for pucks!" I don't know, I think you guys are being overly defensive.

Yeah, Sid is a classy guy off the ice, just shy. If you watch any of the "Sidney Crosby man-love DVD" you can see the guy is actually pretty personable. Also Sid needs a new name. The guy is 22.

This.

Don't blame me because you can't understand the comparison.

Well the best way to rest and miss the playoffs would be to... you guessed it... stop trying. I mean what is the point of the team trying to win and make the post-season when missing the post-season would be the best thing to happen to the team? If they don't make it I won't be overly upset, but that is by far not the best thing for this team. And I have been reading. Your hope is for the team to miss the playoffs for rest. Or perhaps I misread the "best thing to happen to this team" and "thats my hope". Please correct me if I'm wrong on that account. In fact I'd like for YOU to point out where I expect the team to make the conference finals every year regardless of injury. I don't expect this team to act like machines. I expect them to have a commitment to winning (which in my opinion they have, and haven't been acting like they expect to miss the playoffs or be some bottom dwelling piece of garbage to get a draft pick and wait for next year to do well). The team that they are icing isn't a Stanley Cup Champion, but it is better than what has been going out on the ice so far.

I didn't know torn ACLs and broken wrists came from exhaustion. Better keep away from that treadmill. Don't want to break my fibula.