Doc Holiday

Newfy, get off the soapbox. I have no problem with grit. Our differences of opinion are based on the necessity of having grit.

I just wish this thread would diieeeeeee.

Really? It's really not that big a deal.

Heh, I have never apologized for my antics on the ice. I was a chippy mother f***** when I was playing in competitive hockey, and I was never sorry for decking a guy or knocking him flat. Of course I was forced out of my final game because of a lacerated spleen (one which we could have won if I was healthy according the everyone I talked to that night), so I supposed karma got back to me.

Wow I completely forgot about that play. I do not believe Bert did it with a clear head. I believe that the emotions got the better of him, and it caused him to be irrational and do something very regrettable. I've been there myself. It was the third period of a tied up hockey game, and I attempted to hit a forward on the other team. I got rocked. Then the play regrouped and I had another chance to wreck him. Once again I get rocked. A third time, we both go in the corner and I attempt to knock him away from the puck. This time I fall flat on my back, seeing stars, and in my rage I skate up to the guy and slash him in the back of the leg and start punching him. He turns around, lands a couple punches, and sends my sorry ass to the ice. I get a 2:00 instigator and a game misconduct, and I risk my team losing the game because I wanted to kick that guy's ass so badly. (We won the game in the final minute though) I will support Bertuzzi in all his endeavors because I think it was a grave mistake. A mistake that was 100% his fault, but one I don't think he necessarily planned on doing.

I think more evidence is favored to the "intentionally took him to the ice" argument considering Bertuzzi lost momentum after punching Moore, then regained it shortly after when they both began to fall forward. If Bertuzzi had simply lost his balance going forward, he wouldn't have slowed down then gone forward again. I really doubt he accidentally fell on Moore, simply due to the body language Bertuzzi displayed.

I would be fine with your argument, however you seem to think that his neck was broken from the sucker punch. Bertuzzi did something that would have a VERY HIGH chance of injury, while a normal sucker punch has a relatively small chance. The result was very likely in Bertuzzi's case, and he made a very very stupid mistake. If Moore or Claude had both had minor injuries, or a slightly cracked skull, then that's not a huge deal. But a career was ended by Bertuzzi's hit, and very few sucker punches have ended careers, if any.

And least he won't get Mike Brown'd.

Yes, it is a sucker punch. And an ass kicking. Something Moore did not get. Moore was attacked from behind with no opportunity to defend himself and then driven to the ice with Bertuzzi right on top of him. You cannot possibly attempt to relate the two.

I miss Pushor.

Shanahan and Foote? I don't like it because no one currently in the NHL deserves what Moore got, and despite Bertuzzi not meaning to break his neck he put Moore in a position where it was VERY LIKELY he would suffer a serious injury. The sucker punch by itself would have been out of line, but at least Moore would have been able to play again, and it would just be seen as Bert throwing a sucker punch and that's it. Bertuzzi ended a career, and no matter what you do you cannot gloss over that fact. It was not a "Freak injury" because Bertuzzi did not do something "normal" by hockey standards. Lilja's injury was a "freak injury" because fights are standard in hockey (NOT ON THE WINGS LOLOL). A body slam from behind with the victim's head pushed straight into the ice is not standard. It hasn't even happened before. Also, you don't even undestand the context in which I said "I've been had". Otherwise you wouldn't have bothered to respond to that post.

Good signing in my opinion. Welcome back Bert! Hope you can have a great year!

Hmmmm. I think I've been had.

1. Yes, sucker punches happen all the time. But the Bertuzzi incident was so controversial because of what he did after. 2. The broken neck was not because of the punch. 3. You don't have to know that someone's neck is going to break to not slam someone's head into the ice with your entire weight on top of them. If you have any common sense you know there is going to be danger in that. Bottom line. Esteef: Glad to see your true colors, and it's too bad that you think it is okay to have someone's career ended for a borderline body check. ******* despicable.

Really now? When has anyone done what Bertuzzi did? Now where does Moore know the punch is coming? (It is a two second delay btw, and even though Moore didn't react as quickly as I would it wouldn't be surprising if he was confused out of his mind why Bertuzzi was grabbing his jersey) How does Moore know that he is about to be clocked right into the side of the head? Just because his jersey is grabbed from behind? And for arguments sake lets just say that Moore should have known better. Okay, how does that give Bertuzzi the right to slam his face into the ice, or clock him in the side of the head from behind? Bertuzzi should know that if someone goes face first with over 200 pounds on top of him, he is more than likely going to get injured. Especially when there isn't any kind of protection against neck injuries in the NHL. Honestly, Moore's hit was a borderline BODY CHECK. Bertuzzi's was a blatant punch to the face and body slam. The line between the two is so thick it would take you a day to cut through it. And to compare that and the McCarty attack: Notice where McCarty is. Right in Claude's line of vision. He sees it coming the whole way. And don't forget McCarty didn't slam Claude's face into the ice with himself on top.

I think if the guy is getting shopped around, that is evidence enough he is not a good enough leader. I really don't think it makes much of a difference to the GMs. My guess is Boyle will get the C. If Thorton gets it, then that team is looking for quite a few more first round exits in the future.

I just want to respond to skacore. A hit that clips the head is not as dangerous as going headfirst into the ice with over 200 pounds on top of you. Moore could have died. Naslund could not have. The point is, I don't see how Moore did anything to deserve what he got. He deserved an ass-kicking, sure. But not an ended career.

No it wasn't. There is no way Naslund would have had his career ended by that hit. Not even close. Regardless of aim, Moore's head was driven to the ice, after a knockout sucker punch from behind. The difference is that play has never happened in the history of me watching hockey. Not once have I seen a player grab another's jersey, punch them into the side of the head knocking them out, and drive their lifeless body to the ice. Headfirst. With their own weight on top of them. The story wouldn't be as widespread if he didn't break his neck, but there would have been a huge story about it, and Bertuzzi would still have been suspended for it. And that was Bertuzzi's fault. Not Moore's. Name me one play that is even close to Bertuzzi's. BZZZZ. Wrong. If it was clean then there would be just a terrible accident on the ice. Anyone who gives Kronwall grief for that hit would be incorrect and have no base to blame him for ending a player's career. It's hockey. And once again, it is a body check compared to a punch and piledrive to the ice. The situations aren't comparable. Luck may have been a factor, but I really don't think it was luck of the draw that broke Moore's neck. It was the 200+ pounder on top of him who put him there. Nine times out of ten that would have been the result, and Bertuzzi should take FULL responsibility. None of it is Moore's fault. Not a bit of it. I would, but McCarty didn't sucker punch Lemieux in the back or jump on top of him with all his body. Lemieux was also conscious and was able to defend himself and likely keep himself in a better position than Moore ever had the chance to do. They are not comparable, and there is no reason for any of you to give Moore any blame for his condition.

I can't believe you people are actually putting any defense in what Bertuzzi did. What a bunch of ******* bulls***. I'll welcome him to Detroit, but there is no excuse for what Bert did. None at all, and putting any fault in Moore because he put in a dirty check to a player is so far off base I can't believe it is coming from members at LGW. Who the f*** do you people think you are? Cheap shots happen in hockey. Doesn't mean they should have their careers ended for it.

Do you understand my point? (I'll retract the one fighting major, I only remember him fighting one time back against Buffalo. Captains don't have to fight to be considered great leaders. His entire premise was that Crosby was a whiner for going to the refs instead of dropping the mits. Irrelevant. Crosby played with players like Talbot, Laraque, Rutuu, etc. The Crosby is a whiny baby crapola is getting old.

Like, Yzerman, right? Oh wait, Yzerman dropped the gloves ONCE. He has also been kicked out of a game for bitching at a ref. Is he a crybaby too?

The cup goes through the Penguins, regardless of what you think the breaks were that they got. They were not supposed to have the depth Detroit had in the finals, right? Who brought the depth scoring when they needed it most? Pittsburgh. The cup is theirs and it will stay theirs until someone knocks them off, which won't be easy.

As long as it is a one year deal I'm fine. Next year will give Holland a lot of options.

Well I think people are upset that Babcock isn't upholding Holland's "Play soft or die" attitude by keeping him off the ice.