Doc Holiday

Yeah, there were a few big differences. Puck possesion Defense Passing Those were horrible this year compared to last. Wasn't he jumped from behind? And like I said, Rafalski has played with tough guys before (Stevens, Drake last year) so how a "gritty fighting type" would have helped him is beyond me. I think he would know how to stand up for himself by now. And that wouldn't have changed if Drake was still on the team. Hossa isn't a fighter, Rafalski isn't a fighter, and Datsyuk isn't a fighter (though he defended himself against Neids). Last year it was Zetterberg, Lilja, and Franzen who were decking it out against Malkin, Sykora, and Roberts. Malkin isn't a fighter, and Sykora isn't a fighter. Perry is tough enough when he gets into scraps (he challenged Dallas Drake last year for f***s sake), Getzlaf is a badass, and Neids is a big guy. Once again, you are grasping at straws here. The thing is, we have these guys on the team already. Wasn't your point that we need more? How many more? Six? Seven? Two?

Maybe, maybe not. Rafalski won't be a tough guy no matter what. Did he learn nothing from playing with Scott Stevens, or is it possible not all players are destined to beat the s*** out ot he competition? Gary Roberts was the only tough guy on the ice in the Penguin scrum, and he was kept at bay by an official. You cannot compare him, Malkin, Sykora, and a couple others to Neids, Pronger, Getzlaf, and Perry. No comparison at all. I never said it was crazy. I am saying a tough guy isn't some magical fix. It could, it could not. Take a look at Bertuzzi of 07. Detroit's blue collar bunch was amazing in the playoffs. Helm and Abdelkader were great, and they were all over the place. Was that not a boost?

My point was the player being an "enforcer" doesn't make him a benefit to the team. Heart is what I'm after, and Hossa didn't have it. That's what grinds my gears about his play in the post-season. If an enforcer has heart, sign him up and lets start another deep cup run. If he doesn't, I don't care if he can put his fist through Pronger's gap. I don't want him on this team. You are not wrong in saying we were forunate in a lot of our wins in the season. They were outplayed, which wasn't the case last post-season, but I do think there are other factors instead of the "tough" element missing. How many teams' star players are their tougher players? The Ducks had the toughest first line of the NHL, and no matter how many enforcers Detroit has the outcome is the same for that game six loss. Want to know what gave him a boost? First: free puck in front of the goaltender and a stick-waving Kronwall. Second: Free path to the net and a burst of speed. How did he "impose himself" on the Wings in either of those plays? It would be nice, but not vital. Like I said before heart comes before toughness and skill.

Did I say that? Do you know what I mean when I say that? I mean that the idea that this team will go nowhere without an enforcer is crap. Thanks for picking that from my entire post, though.

Fact: Talbot's goals had nothing to do with his toughness. Fact: Helm was our biggest energy guy. And he showed why. Fact: The Anaheim series was tough not only because they have physical forwards, but because every game was difficult to win, which gave our players serious fatigue. Fact: Talbot's "mocking" was petty, and it did nothing. Who cares? -Beachaumin wrecking Kopecky's face (big body outta playoffs...not complaining, just saying) A guy like Drake would have been nice here. -Niedermayer 360 elbow to Datsyuk's head then feeding him uppercuts A guy like Drake wouldn't have been on the ice at that stage. -Perry filling in Rafalski and leaving plenty of visible damage to our 6 million dollar D man See above. -Malkin throwing a couple of punches at Z, but admittidly that wasn't all that much except a message That had nothing to do with enforcers. -Kunitz teeing off on Helm with a few uppercuts in a blow out game (may have gone unnoticed to some) It was 3-0 in the second at that stage. The game wasn't exactly over, and Helm made the right move in letting their team shoot themselves in the foot. Helm was fine and Detroit won 5-0. Any argument involving Lilja and what he could have done should be discarded. The guy is on the roster. If Hossa had enough heart out there we would have won in five or six games. Once again not because of enforcers. Sure, we can cherrypick and make assertions based on certain things we saw, but the enforcer mantra is crap. Rafalski's, Lidstrom's, Datsyuk's, Ericsson's, anyone's injury had nothing to do with the "toughness" of the opposition. I'd like to acquire a guy with heart this offseason. But him being "tough" has s*** to do with it.

I hate Anaheim because of their team. I hate Pittsburgh because they are the golden team of the NHL. So you aren't the only one. If Pittsburgh wasn't touted as the best team to ever play I wouldn't have a problem with them.

Hello troll. And don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Thanks for the kind words. Was pulling for you guys against Washington. Not a fan of your management but the team itself I had a soft-spot for. Maybe it was because of Avery.

Thanks Matt! Great forum to be on and I really feel like we have a great group. Also thanks to all the admins and mods that keep the forums great.

I believe the Wings had more hits. At least I'm pretty sure.

Yeah I did, and their system kept bodies outside and kept Detroit from getting scoring chances. It was the fact it lasted seven games that hurt Detroit, not the physicality. Every game was tough, because Detroit had to do almost everything to get a good scoring chance, let alone score on Hiller.

You have to be kidding me. The Ducks had great defensemen, a great defensive system, incredibly solid goaltending, and a dominant first line. That is what took the game to seven, not their physical play. Pittsburgh's physical play also was not what took Detroit down.

Huh?

Some of you people are pathetic. Sapir: Let me guess, you thought Detroit was done when the good Canadien boys Shanny and Yzerman left the team and let a Euro captain the Wings, right? How have the wings fared since then? In a big bad world full of salary cap issues and mean Canadians? Secret: We don't NEED more Canadians. That is preference of who you like. You like Canadians on the team, and I'm fine with that. But we don't need more of a balance to win the cup. How many did Detroit have last year?

Funny how Yzerman is suddenly the rule and not the exception. News flash: his number didn't go up to the rafters because he did what he is supposed to do. It went up because he did above and beyond what was needed of him. Every game and shift and year. Hockey injuries will hurt other player's performances because they are hockey players. They won't be like Yzerman because no one can be him. And what evidence do you have that they stopped trying exactly?

Who does Hossa mesh well with on the team? Hossa is not a Red Wing type of player. He can't play well with either of our superstars, and his production showed it. I don't want to see him in a Wings jersey, because he did not provide enough effort when it mattered.

One guy compared to the majority of the team isn't a fair comparison. Also, it is silly to compare anyone currently one the Wings roster to him. Steve Yzerman is a legend.

And they lost. What a ******* tragedy.

Here's to Osgood getting bashed in the 2009-2010 regular season again! Right guys?

Great thread. Would read again.

Go jump off a bridge. Osgood was not at fault for tonight's abortion of a game.

Get out of my Detroit Hossa.

Do you believe: 1. The odds of one punch in every eight fights is a reasonable estimate? 2. The risk is worth it for someone who has had a concussion in the past?

Do you think that someone who has recently recovered from a series head injury should fight?

Have the Pens taken a series lead once against Detroit in the last two years?