Chunkylover

Did he tell you he's growing his hair out?

Osgood started last season gunning for the starter spot from the position of back-up. It may be for the best if he gets the idea he has already been supplanted. Conks is playing well, and the team is playing better defense. If Ozzie can't show improvement I'm comfortable with Conklin. The Wings win with tough defense, not goal-tending.

They'd bring a spark. If it takes more than a second round pick I say no. With Helm and Leino we have a lot of energy and depth. If we don't sign a known brawler like the above names or someone like Neil, I believe we will still have the requisite amount of grit throughout the line-up to have playoff success. Draper, Maltby, Sammy, Cleary, Helm, Kopecky can all contribute physically.

Leino is single-handedly improving Draper's and Maltby's +/- after all....

Good point. Datsyuk for the Selke definitely. Hart runner-up?

Guys like Draper and Maltby didn't forget how to play aggressive hockey, they just didn't put in the effort early this season. Maybe Kopecky has been more energetic, but Maltby of late is more visible. Heck I can't remember seeing Kopy at all against the Sharks! Seriously though I think Drapes and Malts should have to lose their spot on the roster, and Helm and Leino definitely increase the effectiveness of the third and fourth lines. If that means Kopy is cut for some games until injury or slump then so be it. However if he starts erasing opponents from existence then he's in and Leino is out (unless he learns to hit). If Draper or Maltby are a liability they're out. Babcock has shown he is willing to scratch veterans, I believe he'll make the right decisions in the playoffs.

But Meech is better than Quincey.... Throw him in there and we should get OV and Brashear!

I'm there with you. The next question would be how many picks or prospects is our peace of mind worth?

Hm, maybe I'm undervaluing that role. I know players always complement the grinders and brawlers, and I don't disavow their necessity, I just attributed last year's success more to the experience of losing to the Ducks than the hunger of the Drake. In terms of leadership though I'd rank Neil lower than Drake. If he does come here, I hope guys like Franzen, Cleary, Helm, Sammy, Draper, Maltby, and Kopy don't see it as an opportunity to soften up. It'll take more than Chris Neil to grind out a deep playoff run.

Brilliant!

Where would he fit? Would he be our #6 with Lilja, or is he good enough to move someone else down the depth chart? If we don't get him I still think we have an enviable defense corps.

They're trying to figure out how to solve that man-mountain named Andrew Raycroft! How have we not beaten those guys yet?!

Depending on the price, it could be a good move to acquire Neil. He'd definitely bring a spark, I'm just not certain that spark will inspire the team to play better defense. If he can, or if they just flip a switch and start playing better D on their own, it really doesn't matter who is in net. I don't think we need Lehtonen. He'd cost too much. Although it is Don Waddell down there. Kopecky and our 2015 ninth-round pick?

The more I discuss this the more amenable I find myself to the proposition of trading for Neil. I have my doubts that he'll be available for a second round pick alone, however, since the last few seasons have been seller's markets. If he can be had, he definitely would bring some spark (remember the Spark Line when Avery was here? What a lame name). Our bottom six were pretty interchangeable last season, but Draper will likely center the third line with some combination of Samuelsson, Hudler, or Cleary, and Helm will center the fourth with Maltby, Neil, or Kopecky (or Leino, or McCarty...). Those are definitely good options. I guess the main thing is we won't really be making a radical change. Just adding Neil for ten minutes a game. Holland knows best what the value of his physical presence will be. Do you think that will be enough to make the rest of the team, underachievers like Kronwall, play with the same intensity they had last year?

Yeah they are terrible in the +/-, but the whole team has really let up on the tight-checking defense that got them through last season. Drake was good for us in the playoffs, but do you think he was the only reason Maltby and Draper played better in the playoffs than in the regular season? Kopecky is an unknown. I can see him taking a lot of dumb penalties just as easily as I can see him being effective. How do you rate the entire teams physical play in the playoffs? Last year our third and fourth liners contributed the odd goal while playing 6-10 grinding minutes per game. Those were definitely important, but I rate the physical play of guys like Datsyuk, Holmstrom, Franzen, Kronwall and Stuart as more important because they are wearing on the opponents top players.

Given that Hasek struggled last season and still got the starters job in the playoffs, Ozzie will have to really suck, even more than he has to this point, to lose the #1 spot. I'd start Conklin though. I'd call Conklin our #1 right now. Being relegated to back-up seems to be the only thing that gets Osgood interested in playing well.

Actually I went to NHL.com. I only bothered to look at his post-season production and what he's done this season because we aren't getting 2006 Chris Neil. If I was to argue that Draper is better than Neil based on his 20+ goal season and his Selke, you would rightly counter that that was many years ago and he's not the same player. My point, as it has ever been, is that we already have a team that knows how to play playoff hockey: tough yet smart, physical but not penalty prone. I've made that point countless times already. Can we please debate that? Well, they did help me make my point, that being a response to your claim: I never made this about point production, you did. Since you again are making this a debate about points, I will indulge your request. It would appear that in the case of Maltby and Kopecky playing on a good team doesn't pad one's stats, although like Neil this year, Kopy's point totals have been hampered by injury. Draper's point production since the lockout is nearly identical to Neil's. It would seem that in the case of the latter two players, there is a correlation between playing on a good team and producing on the score sheet. I believe Ken Holland knows best how to manage this roster. If he trades for Neil, I'll certainly be happy because like you I appreciate the physical nature of his game. However based on the last seven playoff rounds the Wings have been in, I am confident that this team already plays with enough physicality to have success in the post-season. Do you agree or disagree with that statement?

In 44 games Neil has 2 goals, 4 assists for 6 points with 10:51 TOI P/G and 5 total points in the last five playoff rounds. At that rate he isn't better than any of our fourth liners (Draper 5-6-11, Maltby 5-5-10, Kopecky 3-9-12). Maybe you should stick to the character assassinations because informed debate is not your strong suit.

I'm not against him playing here I just don't believe we need him. Character assassin! Libel! I included those guys because they all rotated through the bottom six. And what's so crazy about being confident in this teams ability to compete in the playoffs? Haven't the last two post-seasons proved that yet? I know the statistics do.

Well, that's true but fighting aside, and he won't be fighting wherever he ends up, Cleary, Helm, and Samuelsson are better than Neil; Draper, Maltby, and McCarty were not useless and it's intentionally misleading to say they can't contribute. Sure they aren't dominating the league but they didn't last season either. They played their roles well in the playoffs and I believe they will this year too.

Do we really need another fourth-liner? We have six guys who can play that role. Sure none may be able to fight as well but how many post-season fights has Neil been in?

Except he didn't really contribute anything to the discussion. If he thinks Neil would be a good addition to this team he should have said where he would fit and how we'd accomodate him.

Nice post. I won't go so far as to say which teams will or will not have success in the playoffs, though I will say that the Wings playing at the level they have for much of the season will not go far. I also don't think making a deadline deal will solve the problems this team is experiencing. I believe that once the playoffs start the defensive lapses and lack of focus will seem to have solved itself. This team is experienced enough to be able to flip the switch when it counts. You say we need Osgood to round back into form, and I am hoping he can, but I believe Conklin can fill in adequately behind our typically stingy playoff defense. Do you agree or disagree? And they would have rightly continued saying it had that team not earned their new reputation.

That wouldn't be a bad acquisition, but who do we have to give up (Atlanta was very greedy at the deadline last year) and who will he replace? We have two full lines of mucky players: Cleary, Samuelsson, Helm, Maltby, Draper, McCarty; all of whom showed they could contribute during a long playoff run. Every one of them brought grit and depth scoring. Colby Armstrong would be a lateral move as far as point production if he replaced Sammy. Cleary and Helm aren't going anywhere, and I'm sure everyone's happy with that. He would be an improvement over Draper, Maltby, and McCarty in terms of scoring, grit, or speed but all those guys are already proven to be a capable fourth liners. They've already shown they can step up their intensity for the big games. Maybe look at it this way, if this team isn't willing to step it up in the playoffs this year, trading a few valuable picks for someone like Colton Orr, Colby Armstrong, or Chris Neil won't push them over the top. Heck even Steve Yzerman couldn't will a stacked team to the finals in '06, but can anyone question his grit or determination?

No one is arguing Drake's post-season utility. He did a lot for us. However he was mocked all across the Interweb for his lame fights and inability to contribute all last season. He was washed up. Now the same is being said about Maltby and Draper, yet they were dynamite (considering their roles) in the playoffs. Why do we need someone new when we already have Cleary, Draper, Maltby, McCarty, Helm all proven, big-time playoff performers in the mold of Drake?