Chunkylover

Why bother replacing him? Whoever is in that job is going to be hated. He's an authority figure and humans are inherently rebellious.

Actually isn't this exactly what we saw from him: a great goal in his first game? Nothing against him, but for his own sake he needs to work harder to make sure he doesn't have the same slump afterward. Kind of extreme statement there. It was Leino or Franzen, right? The writing was on the wall for Ville; he'd had his chances here and couldn't make it happen. To be fair, no one on the team was doing well either, but If he'd been willing to stay in North America, if not the NHL, he'd still be in Michigan at least.

This can't be true, can it?

I guess I don't consider the bolded stuff as gritty play. When I think of grit I think of board battles for the puck. Stuff that Leino couldn't do, but Filppula is actually surprisingly good at. I'll bring up Holmstrom again. That kind of punishment reflects his grittiness. What you've mentioned is certainly physical play, but you don't need to be hard-working (I think a good synonym for grit) to hit somebody are stick your glove in his face after the game has officially stopped being played. Now see, that's just not necessary. Or am I just not gritty enough to hang on the Euro-wuss Red Wings boards?

Except for you right? Maybe the disagreement comes from the fluidity of the term grit. I say it is an example of grit on the part of the Red Wings to play tough against a team like the Ducks. That the Wings prevail given their natural disadvantage exhibits a greater amount of grit than it takes for the Ducks to exert their physical giftedness on their opponents. Grit is fighting through the obstacles and opponents, not necessarily limited to the occasional fight with the opponent. May, Eaves, Janik, and Ericsson are (I believe) the only Wings to have fought this season, but they aren't the only gritty Wings. The Ducks are not incapable of finesse either.

Right now they certainly are not mentally tough, but come on game seven of the '09 Western semi-finals the grittier team won. The real problem is that people here have a way of making over-generalized statements in an attempt to discredit an opposing opinion instead of interacting intellectually. I gave arguments in support of my post, you've accused me of some nebulous transgression that isn't applicable to the situation because I never made any claims about team toughness or exalted them to any level, let alone one that is beyond their true station.

Philly players aren't jerks to other teams, they're jerks to each other, see: the Carter-Hartnell incident. No Philly is stupid. They take stupid penalties and make stupid plays. And no, Anaheim is undisciplined. Slashing, goal-tender interference, and boarding are not signs of grit, they're illegal plays. St. Louis... I don't know, I didn't mention them in the first place. Jackman plays like he wants to be a Duck. Face-washes after the whistle aren't gritty plays. Guys like Holmstrom put up with constant slashing and cross-checking yet keep going back and getting the job done. That's grit. And the only penalties he takes are the ones called by Dan O'Halloran. It isn't hard for someone like Getzlaf or Pronger to be physical because they are huge. Zetterberg is a midget compared to them but he hangs with them and more often than not comes out on top because has grit. Didn't you read my original post?

I'd say the Wings are inordinately gritty based on their lack of any really big players high-end players. Tell me Hank, Pavel, Filppula, Cleary, plus Helm and now Eaves aren't gritty going into the corners against guys like Pronger and constantly coming up with the puck. It doesn't take much for Chara to be considered gritty based on his natural gift of size, but for a shrimp like Datsyuk to put him on his behind is grit. Philly isn't gritty, they're stupid. Anaheim isn't gritty, they're undisciplined. Toronto isn't gritty, they're just plain bad. Calgary is somewhat gritty, but they don't know who they're supposed to be: tough pylons, or finesse European puck-hogs, and thus they accomplish neither. Colorado is tough, but I think they're kind of riding an adrenaline high. Phoenix is showing true grit and resilience. Nashville is another gritty team both in their playing style and their team attitude.

There are and have been problems, but come on, this is not another example of the "Mickey Mouse Bettman Hockey League". The original post even says they had an overhead camera angle. Move along folks, nothing to see here.

No. They are playing like excrement. I wonder sometimes if they really care about the playoffs anyway. Only two guys on the roster haven't won a Cup (Eaves, Bertuzzi) and only Williams hasn't been there in the last three seasons (May and Miller with Anaheim). They've got nothing to play for and are probably burned out. Missing the playoffs might just be good for them. Playing the way they have recently they certainly don't deserve to be there.

I doubt it. The NHL will always struggle to get people involved because hockey isn't an easy game for fans to get into on their own. Gear is expensive, skating on ice or wheels is a talent few people are even interested in cultivating, and it's easier to get a full teams worth of people to play soccer, football, basketball, or baseball. For those other sports all it takes is a ball and field, whereas hockey requires sticks, pucks, goals, possibly skates, and people who know how to actually hold sticks correctly and skate confidently. Not to take away from the many youth and minor leagues in the south, but hockey is very much a regional sport. That is the true challenge for the NHL to overcome. The real solution is not moving rookies too quickly into prominent management roles, but for fans to do the work of converting friends and family to the sport. That is not happening. Here is what you can do. Turn off baseball, basketball, football, soccer, and encourage people to get behind their local team and get involved in playing the game themselves. The leadership failure resides in the fanbase, not the management. The NHL management does a good job for the many very real obstacles against them.

Brilliant! My second favorite. Ruh-roh!

But whose average? He's way below his own average level of play and right now I'd say he's below Stuart's performance. Ah, subjectivity is a wonderful thing isn't it?

Isn't Eaves waiver exempt? Keep Miller that way. I'm with you all, I will hate to see the grinders go. If the Wings make the playoffs, it will have been due to their contributions.

No, you can't quote anyone in APA, MLA, Turabian, whatever, because no one was saying it. They may have been against you saying it. They may have opposed those who blasted Holland for saying it. But in the end, once the transaction was completed, no one complained about May being signed. No one, right now, is complaining about May being on the team or the job he's doing on the team. Even chrisdetroit said he's doing a good job. That's kind of the problem with baiting people, and especially in such a detached environment as the Internet: sometimes the point is lost in the argument, especially if the point of the thread is the argument. Since you're asking my preference, when May drops the gloves with someone, you could always sing his praises in the GDT. Not in a way that is actually a swipe at those you deem to be "anti-enforcer". If you like the guy so much you could actually cheer him on just for the sake of cheering him on, y'know. Secondly, no argument is needed for May being in the lineup because no one is calling for him to be benched. Since you brought up Leino, look at how many negative posts are out there, how many people are calling for him to be benched. Does that mean LGW is anti-Finn? Unfortunately, when you start a thread, your reputation proceeds you. I'm right there with you when it comes to cheering on May because I think he's doing a great job. I just don't feel the need to perpetuate a contrived argument.

I agree with the bolded part. I'm not sure where you are going with the rest because I think May does a great job grinding the puck out in the opposition zone and on the fore-check. Aaron Downey was more of a one-dimensional. May is a good grinder. Jarome Iginla isn't an enforcer. Can you explain this last point more clearly? As this thread adds pages, it becomes less about May or fighters and more about an invented argument, and your short little post proves it. Doc has repeatedly, across many different threads, stated how he enjoys having a fighter on the team. As much as I dislike Shoreline's emoticons, he's pretty spot on when it comes to the true reason for this threads existence. Again, please note it is always the "pro-enforcers" who bump this thread looking for a fight (PUN!), never the "anti-enforcers". If the latter group actually existed we'd see them troll-baiting every time May didn't fight, lost a fight, or a player was injured.

Yeah, that was more a rhetorical question. My point was more along the lines of: most fights are staged, May already fought Boll this season, Boll is going to do what it takes to get in a fight, because that's his role. We have two options for looking at Boll's actions post-May: either he cowardly tucked his tail between his legs and went to licking his wounds on the bench, or he didn't need to give May an excuse to fight anymore. Kind of like how ESAD bumps the "pro-enforcer" thread to bring out the "trolls". Honestly the camera panned to follow Ritola with the puck so I'm not really sure how the scrap started, but it's not like Boll was taken by surprise.

Does anyone think Boll would be running players if May wasn't in the roster? I'm not saying he wouldn't, but I think it's something to consider. There are very few, truly heat-of-the-moment fights in the NHL anymore. In fact, the "garbage" fight between Janik and Picard was more spontaneous than Boll/May. Let's not kid ourselves, we all know the story about Barch and May. Their fights are anything but spontaneous.

I don't disagree that he's very useful, but I'd think that if all he were doing is aggressively fore-checking, driving the net (although he need not ever score a goal as far as I'm concerned), hustling to defend his own zone, and playing hard minutes grinding out the puck in the opposition zone. Those things make him more useful than the occasional fight in my opinion. May was brought in to play hockey, and no one has cast aspersions on his performance in that regard. If ESAD didn't need to incite the trolls, the trolls would have remained silent. That's not an excuse for trolling, but ESAD is not a victim here. No one attacked ESAD for the May signing. For accuracy's sake, if you go back through this thread you'd find that no one complained about the May signing and the consensus was favorable. This "troll" is only responding to the intentional "troll-baiter". Edit: If you note every time this thread is bumped, it's one of the "pro-enforcers" touting the "proof" that May is the only thing keeping this team alive. None of the "trolls" or "anti-enforcers" revives this thread when a player is injured or May doesn't pound someone's face because sadly this really isn't about enforcers or May, but about ESAD. Everyone knows your position on May, and if you cared to notice anyone's posts but your own you'd know everyone is in agreement that he's played well, and that the pugilism is appreciated.

This thread (and thread-starter) has a terrible habit of driving people to the furthest opposing poles that they can find. May is definitely a good fourth-line grinder. He isn't the best we have on the team at the moment, but he's good. As you say, judging a player's usefulness by the box-score is foolish, but no more foolish than calling a player an MVP because he's been in a few fights (not sure of the exact number). He's good because he does all the things you've mentioned: "hitting, fore checking, solid defensive play, puck protection and sometimes fighting" not just the last part.

I agree. Malik and the Ovechkin v. Price should have been ten and nine, then Datsyuk's goal. And anyone notice a fairly glaring omission?

You really don't appreciate what Holmstrom, Helm, Abdelkader, Howard, Draper, and Stuart are bringing for their salary? Even Meech is at least putting in the level of play that his salary demands. Guys like Lidstrom, Rafalski, and Osgood are to me laying the biggest stinkers. Nevertheless, I shudder to think of how bad we'd be without them. Until this thread found it's way back to the front page no one uttered any unkind words anywhere near discussion of "Bard" May. This thead is more pro-ESAD and anti-ESAD than anything else. I wish you could have left well enough alone.

Yeah, it's far better for the guy who gets laid out by the clean hit to look for retribution than for his teammates. I'm glad Janik is getting some playing time. That May fight though, it looked pretty close, then May got in a beauty of a right hook at the :43 mark. Lovely.

This was worth quoting. I'm glad we have such a good GM to find the right guys at the right price to stand in the gap.

I'd be happy if the Wings lost to the eventual Cup champs in the Conference Final after the zany season they've had to this point. Not has happy as I'd be with a Cup, but much happier than I'd be with them missing the playoffs. Edit: ... Although Calder always looked lazy just by the facial expressions on his chubby face, never mind his play on the ice. I remember there being speculation that he was injured because he didn't seem to be contributing at all, and he was like, "I'm not injured." Then what was the problem Kyle? I think we can survive without him.