Chunkylover

Good news for Hawks fans. As for the Huet and Campbell deals, Burke has said he will eat huge contracts this year, for a price of course. I'm sure the Hawks won't be at all concerned to ship a few picks to get cap compliant. The Hawks may not have cap problems next year.

I don't remember who said it exactly, someone over at ESPN, but the Wings struggles were the result of the loss of too many soft Europeans and the addition of too many gritty North Americans. I'm not griping, I love our third and fourth lines, I just think it's funny how the supposed cure for the Wings a few seasons ago is now their part of the problem.

It's interesting how some of the biggest questions going into this season were Howard, Eaves, and our aging depth players. Up to this point our bottom six has looked real, real good, and indeed Howard has shown that he just needed some playing time.

Yeah, there were as many dirty players then as there are now. I mean, not to disparage Mr. Hockey or Terrible Ted, but how many people are running around these boards with sigs bearing quotes about their nasty elbows and attitude? Not saying there shouldn't be rules changes to punish blindside hits, but the histrionics over the lack or respect in today's players is annoying.

Y'know how sometimes, when the Wings play too fancy and lose, and the coach yells at them to stop being so pretty? I think that's the idea Bertuzzi has when he's on the ice. Gotta play all "dangle dangle". What strikes me is that whenever the camera follows Bert to the bench, I see a very warm, encouraging Mike Babcock. I think it may well be about injuries. Drew Miller scores a beautiful power-forward-esque goal before Bertuzzi does? Who would have guessed? I think he's still got talent, but he needs to think of shooting first so he can beat the shot-blockers. Let Pasha be Pasha.

It's funny because I think the exact opposite. I see Bert too often skating into the zone, pulling off to the boards and looking to set someone up instead of shooting. Like he's trying to be the play-making center Datsyuk is. I'm not denying his occasional forays to the crease, I just would rather see him drive the net more and look to pass less.

I feel you, but, and this is just me, not trying to attack you, but I could not justify myself watching the free streams. From both a moral standpoint, but also from the position that it hurts the league. The best way to send a message is to actually send a message describing the situation, and how you feel it could be addressed. The more people you can personally persuade to follow your example, the more likely the message will be received. I can tell you right now, all the league hears from the free-streamers is, "I want to steal your product." Trying to send a message by stealing the NHL's product is the kind of passive-aggressive stuff a child would do. It's wholly ineffective and in the end the person who is trying to send a valid message ends up looking worse that the other party.

I actually considered dropping my cable bill in favor of the on-line streaming of games through NHL.com, but figured that regional blackouts might apply. Is this what you're referring to, because the televised Center Ice package doesn't have blackouts unless you get the local feed already. At least it didn't for me as recently as the '08-'09 playoffs. Granted the VS. thing is a problem (but not the NHL or Bettman's fault), but I believe the NHL network is part of the standard DirecTV package. I don't know what you mean by five separate channels. I never missed a televised game, except certain one's in Nashville that weren't carried locally either. Again, I appreciate the economic situation, but you aren't protesting by stealing a product that really is exceptional (I speak of the game in general in spite of occasional blown calls). You are actually working against the success of the game. What's possibly worse is that you are coarsening your conscience by justifying theft and supporting those who do.

You're trying to justify stealing. If you travel, get a DVR, I have one they're great. If you don't want a DVR get a DVD recorder; it'll cost less than a hundred bucks. I have one of those, they're great. The Versus thing is obviously crappy, but it's also obviously a spat between Comcast and DirecTV, what can the NHL do about that? The NHL is nationally televised for free, once Football season ends. Why? Because it's more popular than hockey. If hockey fans would boycott the NFL instead of the NHL we might see some progress. Instead, all I hear are people saying, "Yes, there are plenty of options available, but I don't want to spend the money to support the game I love, so instead I'm going to steal from them."

Well, I appreciate your honesty. I'm not saying I was a huge Cory Cross fanatic or anything, all I'm saying is that I support the team, from the management down to the Mays and Williamses. In previous discussions, the unflagging support of the GM's decisions appeared to some to be anti-fighter. I'll be all with you in arguing for adding gritty guys like Moen or Grier, that is, until KH signs Eaves and Williams. At that point I trust KH to have made the better choice. As was evidenced earlier, that is where much of the disagreement between the two sides actually lies. At least we can both be happy that May is a Red Wing. Edit: Your signature is actually something that I've always appreciated about the Red Wings. When the team is being spanked badly, they don't go out there and instigate pointless scraps or go after star players. They don't usually instigate the little helmet twisting spats that teams like Vancouver and St. Louis do. This may be another point upon which we disagree, but I find that to be a very respectable practice. Mostly because I hate when some team starts that crap and injures one of our guys. What May and Barch did last night, although clearly staged (visor/no visor) was a good contribution to the game.

So it's really your own choice that prevents you from watching hockey, not Bettman's. I lived in VA for three years and had no trouble watching the Wings on TV ($600 in 2003), with DirecTV (~$90 a month including the sports package). Was it expensive? You can do the math. I got to watch the Wings so it was money well spent. If you have a decent job $150 really isn't that much is it?

I agree that the buck stops at the top. Certainly you've raised some good points, and he is responsible for providing leadership. I just don't know that he's really done as much bad as he's blamed for, and am certain that he's not getting any credit for any good that he's done. This is just me, but it's a sign of poor management to make a public display when rebuking a lesser official. Colin Campbell is responsible for rules enforcement, and I don't know who is in charge of the refs, but they both know when mistakes are made, but it damages all authority when even one part of it is publicly mocked or rebuked. If you have trouble accepting that, personalize it: if you were Auger would you rather be confronted in front of the media, or behind the scenes? Wasn't the NHL one of the leaders in implementing instant replay? What they need to do is embed sensors in the puck and net. I won't tell you that you absolutely must cheer for him, but if he's really as woefully incompetent as you suggest then the league would have struggled in spite of the economy. If people deserve blame when things go wrong, they deserve credit when things go right. So, you pick the part where he takes responsibility for the ESPN thing, but mock the part where he says things are better than they were before. If he's a liar how can anything he says be trustworthy? You're cherry-picking what you want to accept as truth. The league should be concerned about making money and I believe Versus offered them more. If a tiny network like Versus can outbid ESPN, then ESPN isn't really as successful as we all think. Since that's not the case, ESPN's low-balling of the NHL shows their true interest in the game.

I remember following these debates. What was most annoying was that there was gross misidentification of the true problem in Detroit, Michigan by people with an agenda against the Wings. Don Cherry has never hidden his contempt for this team. Fine, he's a Leaf fan. But he tries to wrap his contempt in this "traditional hockey" flag and unfortunately people bought it. Wings attendance wasn't hurt by a lack of fights, but by a lack of winning, including the entire '04-'05 season where they didn't even win a single game, and the loss to Edmonton. When a guy like Cherry says the Wings need less players like Datsyuk and more players like Getzlaf, what he's really saying is the Wings need to finish low enough in the standings to be eligible to pick "big, tough, Canadians". Like much of the "enforcer" debate, it's not about more fights, but about an agenda, whether that be anti-Communism (which, although a good thing, is what I believe fueled Cherry's animus toward a team with a lot of Russians), or arm-chair management by internetters second-guessing one of the best GM's in sports (and that's solely based on statistics, not homerism). Additionally, you'll notice that no one is questioning the Wings attendance issues anymore, because now everyone is enjoying the Michigan economy.

Fine. I agree, that it's clear Red Wings fans enjoy fighting. There's probably no point in the last twenty to thirty years where this statement has not been true. It's so clear that no one has ever denied it, and without it being said everyone already knows it. Gee, I don't know, were they ever Red Wings? You have your answer, but I haven't gotten mine. Yeah, I suppose you could say I was pushing that, but given that everyone who does the text voting voted for the goal-scorer over the fighter, I'm just offering that as anecdotal evidence that maybe it's not as highly rated by everyone, but in no way was meant to disparage May's contribution. Honestly though, he'd probably have been the winner and the #1 star if Auger hadn't robbed him of that goal.

I don't understand how you don't have an option to watch them. If you really are willing to pay, there's Center Ice on either cable or satellite (which means no matter where you are you can get a feed), if you are out of the Detroit viewing area you are can get the NHL.com stream and the game won't be blacked out. I agree that a team-specific package is a great idea, and that in this economy $150 is a lot (it's the reason I don't currently have Center Ice), but to say they haven't offered the options is not accurate.

But does anyone really know why they're booing? He's not really responsible for most of what he's blamed for. For instance: the ticky-tack hooking and holding calls (Shanahan and the competition committee), the Wings losing to the Penguins (obviously too many injuries!), hockey being dropped from ESPN (ESPN exec at the time hated hockey), Quebec and Winnipeg moving (poor management), et cetera.... I think the real reason he's booed is the natural tendency of humans to resist authority coupled with some degree of ignorance.

Yes, it is always best for a person to reap the benefits of their labor and defend their ability to do so. Technically the free-streamers are not only stealing from the league, their favorite team, and their favorite player, but they are stealing from everyone else who pays for Center-Ice, DirecTV, Comcast, et cetera, because without us paying our cable or satellite bills, there would be no feed for them to stream. Theft is never right. If someone can't afford to pay to watch the team play they should ask their friends or family for help, not their government (speaking generally) or resort to larceny (speaking both generally and specifically). Property rights is what has made Western Civilization so successful. If a person is concerned with the growth of the fan base, they should do their own part by encouraging peers to get involved with the game. Grassroots efforts are always more successful than top-down micro-management (both generally and topic-specifically).

I think you're missing the point that no one on this board has started a thread to deny May's contribution to this team. Why do you still feel the need to argue against an imagined opponent? Hockey fans love fighting, this has never been denied. People loved Downey and love May because they were and are Red Wings not because they perform one function or another. Can you say the same about yourself and guys like Williams? And technically the poll was taken by every fan watching the game on FSD and last time I checked (which admittedly was not the final results from the post game but actually the last time they showed it during the game) Zetterberg and Datsyuk were far more highly rated than May. This is not a knock on May, but a knock at your premise that every Red Wings fan is on your side of this contrived debate.

I love Steve Yzerman, and I know he's got an interest in helping the state, but it's sad to see him linked to a taxpayer-funded commercial advocating protectionism in a state and city with out-of-control government spending. Does anyone remember in his last season, Steve went with the real short hair-cut, and after seeing him at the Hall of Fame and in this commercial, I noticed how good and thick his hair was. As a balding man, I need to know his secrets.

I was referring to the guy who questioned Bettman's glib statement about the loss of $20-$25M. That was a valid critique, because that's a serious loss. Now if it has happened before, to cities like Calgary, Edmonton, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, and Ottawa, that is, if there is precedent to major losses like that, then I can maybe understand why he thinks things can be turned around with the right people in charge. Look at how much better the team is doing with a good coach, i.e., not someone who bought their coaching position, but someone who earned it. The Illitch model makes it clear that the problem with an underperforming franchise is not the fans, and not the game itself, but the people who are in charge. Put the right people in the right positions and a team (the Red Wings) that can't fill their home arena (the Joe Louis) even when they're giving a car away every game night, can turn into a champion and the post popular NHL team in two countries and much of the hockey-world.

You don't think he was a hostile witness because of the hostile interviewer? We don't need Gary Bettman to be President to hear those responses from the White House. Sarcastic or not, this is quoted for truth. He nickel-and-dimed the league to a profit and he hasn't done anything for the league? Oh and Bettman didn't take hockey of major TV stations, ESPN didn't want hockey at all. Getting young Canadians into hockey isn't the NHL commissioner's job. This is really the only valid critique throughout this whole thread.

I have to say he pretty well handled whoever was asking the questions. He seems very intelligent and smart enough not to accept a false premise when presented with one. This is the only thing I disagree with him on: As is demonstrated all over hockey discussion boards, most people commenting have no idea what the Phoenix fiasco was about, or what Bettman's job even is in the first place. This is the most interesting part: Canada deserves another team why? Maybe that's a bit unnecessarily incendiary, but I thought the quote was interesting nonetheless.

Can Toews and Kane really demand in the area of $5M? Is it possible they will sign for much less than some people expect?

That's because it wasn't going toward his five-hole! If Howard was in net the stone would have bounced off his pads at the speed of the Hadron particle and sucked the planet into a black hole.

I can't remember where this was pointed out, but someone mentioned that perhaps KH is sending a message to the minor leaguers, who apparently aren't really working very hard, by refusing to call them up to the big league. It's a strange pick-up, but hey, he signed Brad May, he must know something we don't right?