Chunkylover

When was the last time the Wings were out of the playoff picture to start November and without four key starters with long term injuries? Many Wings fans will face a lot of new experiences this season. Heck, many Wings players will face a lot of new experiences this season. On a related note, anyone notice how Holland keeps replacing the skilled European personnel losses with young, gritty North Americans?

That's too bad, they look to have finally turned their fortunes around.

Just because we won and he was injured does not mean we won because he was injured. Babs knows how to manage the bench, but he needs all the pieces available to be moved in or out of the lineup.

I can't say as to whether he's a good or bad defenseman. I assumed he's good enough to be a #4-#6 defenseman in this situation. I actually mused in my post that he'd be a good fit with someone who was offense-minded. My "no 'D'" comment was really just an attempt to poke fun at someone who was bashing tonight defense lineup. Obviously the internet can be a barrier to effective communication at times, but if you were to take my two previous posts in this thread together, you'd find them consistent in my support of the bench management of Babcock, and Janik in this current situation (see excerpt below).

I don't know, there's no "D" in Janik.... I would actually expect some pretty good things out of a Lebda/Stuart line, if that's how they go. Two veterans of the Wings system, complimentary styles. Neither is absolutely dreadful, and both are capable of inspired play. I doubt Janik/Anybody will have click at all in this first game because they've got nothing to build on yet.

So we shouldn't expect any offensive contribution from the second D-pairing, eh? This could actually turn out well, Janik and Stuart can hang back and focus on defense and Meech and Lebda can exploit their offensive game. Good balance and a way to mask weaknesses with complimentary strengths. What's the handicap as far as injuries? Who's out for Boston, Lucic, Bergeron, Savard, is that right? (Edit: forgot the injuries were posted on the front page.)

Williams was already on the ice....

They're like our evil twins from that alternate dimension known as the Eastern Conference.

The Wings have played well against teams they knew to respect (Washington, Chicago), they played good but incomplete games against teams they've traditionally fared well against and possibly underestimated (St. Louis, Phoenix, Colorado), they showed some pluckiness against Vancouver and Edmonton, and Calgary looked like old-school Wings hockey (vintage '08, the good old-school). Boston and San Jose will be tough games as early as this week. If they can indeed build off the Calgary game, and respect these two very tough teams, then they should be on their way to a win streak.

I don't delight in any player getting injured, but Ovechkin is just as annoyingly over-hyped as Crosby, and I hate the Capitals style of play. I won't shed a tear; the game doesn't need Ovechkin.

Even if Hudler wasn't wearing a visor, Willy's stick would have cleared his head by a foot.

I think May's been good on the fourth line. I imagine, based on his interviews, he's real good in the locker room as well. Really the third and fourth lines have been consist and tough to play against. Scoring from those lines is always a plus and desirable, but we need the top two lines to actually pick up the pace, not these guys.

I would like to say nobody here is saying things like that but apparently someone on the first page did. I'd just like to separate those who just want to win an argument from the rest of us who just want to support the team. If KH thought Downey deserved to be here I'd support him in spite of his somewhat below average hockey skills, because I say "yes" to this team, not "why". For the sake of accuracy, the debate team started this thread, with more "evidence" that the Wings are "pro-fighter" against those accused of being anti-fighter. This thread was intended to bring that argument back to the front page. I believe this â–¼ belongs to you â–². This is exactly right. May is here to play hockey, not just fight. Hockey is about hockey, not fighting. Fighting is an entertaining element of the sport, like the penalty shot, or back-checking. A good GM, like Ken Holland, knows that with salary and roster limitations, one can't have every type of player. As I said earlier, the Wings currently have someone who is known for their fists, and no one is out there complaining or starting threads about giving a "worthless fighter" ice-time. Why? Because in spite of a few ill-conceived posts on the first page, no one is really anti-fighter. Can we please put this debate to bed now?

I like May's attitude. I don't like this constant mischaracterization of the "fighter" debate, as if there are anti-fighters out there. Before May was signed all we heard was how "scared" Ken Holland was of having fighters and the team was going to lose because of it. Now that the Wings have a fighter, no one is out there starting threads about what a waste May is, because none of the accused "anti-fighters" thinks that way. There are only those who support the decisions of the management and those who don't, or those who recognize the Wings record of success without a designated fighter and those who deny it. As for the team defense thing. Howard needs to work on rebound control, our D-corps is soft, but could still play harder as you've pointed out, and the forwards need to get back and help out instead of looking to accelerate the transition.

Definitely take a closer look. Just make sure your expectations are reasonable. He isn't Hossa. He's not as good as Leino along the boards but he's a sniper, which means he's a shooter, which means he is a very important player on this team. He's only been okay on defense, but then so has Lidstrom. Wiliams can certainly do more, but he's not losing games for us. Many people struggle with allowing personal biases to skew their observation of facts. Check out Francis Bacon's "The Four Idols" for an explanation.

I agree, which means that the problem right now isn't that we don't have the right personnel (Franzen aside), but that nobody is really interested in doing the job they're paid to do, which is win regular season games.

Before last season did anyone think we'd be saying this about Lilja? No. And if you think you did, you're wrong because no one did. Lils turned it around, and Lebs did as well from the start to finish of last season. To single him out as the problem is an exaggeration.

Guy scores a goal and this is how we celebrate. I can't in good conscience join your little group.

It makes one wonder if the '08 team didn't just play better than they actually were, kind of exceeded expectations, and now we're seeing what they're really capable of. With that said, we had only one truly established forward and defense unit in '08. Filppula and Cleary are better. Draper and Maltby are playing well. Helm and Ericsson should be at least adequate replacements for Drake and Lilja. Stuart and Kronwall should be better. So should Osgood. Instead it seems like our established players got worse. One line can't finish (which is ironic considering they're Finns), and the team seems desperate to ****** defeat from the jaws of victory (especially recently).

That's a difficult set of numbers to look at. At first I had no idea what I was being reminded of. What's discouraging is that the Wings have looked good in all their wins and for the majority of two of their most recent losses. I feel that if the playoffs started today, and the Wings were actually in it, they'd be a tough team to beat no matter who they played. I really trust their ability to play good in the big games. Right now though, it's like they know what to do, but just don't want to. Even without the historical context, it's foolish to panic anyway. No amount of worry on a fan-site is going to urge the team to success. If I had my way the Wings would never lose, but if they were to miss the playoffs this season, they'll be more rested and hungry next season.

What's hilarious is that he is the first Red Wing to lose to Trevor Thompson on the Red Wings Weekly bit "Trev Takes On". Trev beat him at golf, to which Jimmy responded, "Geez, I can't buy one around here." So funny it's sad. Hide the razor blades!

Joe Sakic and Steve Yzerman were both over thirty when they won their respective Conn Smythes. Zetterberg was better than Crosby for two straight Finals. Malkin and Datsyuk are even as far as production goes over the last two Final matchups. Osgood also played better than his younger counterpart. On paper this team should be the joke of the NHL: multiple late-round picks in key positions, less than three-million combined for goaltenders, more than a few cast-offs and first-round busts. Add to that three long seasons, recent lapses, and key injuries, and on paper it makes sense to pick against the Wings. Nevertheless, Buccigross is cherry-picking a few instances for the sake of brevity to support his argument, kind of like I did at the start of my post. This works because there are so many variable to consider in making a prediction that one has to stand on the most logical evidence. No reason to laugh at someone for being wrong about a prediction; why should he feel bad that he couldn't see the future accurately? As for me, I picked the Bruins and Wings in the Final this year, and both are out of it with only (!) 60+ games to go. Boy is my face red.

Lebda was dreadful at the beginning of last season and after being benched for a few games, came back and improved to be a plus player from, what, minus-22? Here's hoping he's used the time to focus on his game.

Yeah, but he, like most of the team can step up their play in the playoffs. I don't know if you can go so far as to say he has "ZERO" leadership qualities, because Babs includes him in the leadership corps. The team just needs to realize that no matter how much it sucks to have to play regular season hockey, they have to do it anyway. They don't get paid for the post-season, they get paid for getting there.

I know they get three months off after each season, but even that much time may not be enough to recover from the incredible strain on their bodies. I remember watching some reality show of Hell Week for SEALs and there were guys who had the heart and ability to go through the exercises but their bodies were just too badly beaten.