Chunkylover

Careful, remember the NHL has an instigator rule....

We have more wiggle room this year than last year. That's probably the reason. I believe Mr. Hockey actually did have one "Gordie Howe Hat-trick". What's funny is it bears his name, but there are probably a lot of other players who have earned many more than he did. Just shows the power of the media to shape the facts to fit their story.

Is anyone else experiencing intermittant sound on Comcast FSD?

And now that the terms have finally been accurately defined and accepted we have a resolution. I wanted Ken to get both Moen and Grier and never considered Eaves, Williams, or Bertuzzi, but I respect his judgment over my own when it concerns management. It's still gross exaggeration to say he's afraid of signing a fighter. He just places a lower value on having one than you do. Holland isn't anti-fighter just because he makes roster decisions you disagree with.

Talk about a self-fulfilling prophecy!

Again, you are mischaracterizing my statement. I didn't say you don't support the team, I said you don't support the decisions they make that don't agree with your own. That's not exaggeration. That's what this whole thread has been about: "Babcock finally got that Holland's mind right! He's afraid of having enforcers!" That is exaggeration and it's coming from you and E_S_A_D. If there indeed are anti-enforcers, they aren't in this thread, because no one here has said fighting has no place in the game. My position and those that have made similar point, is that if Holland thinks Williams is a better acquisition than Moen, I support him even if I thought Moen would be a valuable signing.

There you go again with the mischaracterization. You haven't heard any of these guys complain about the May signing, quite the contrary actually. As lewd as Shoreline's emoticon is, it may be spot on.

There are no anti-enforcers! You and E_S_A_D and whoever else there is have been getting away with mischaracterizing the basis of the debate. It's not about who's for or against signing a fighter, because no one is anti-fighting. Both Holland and Babcock value the righty on the PP, so Williams replaced Samuelsson. The Wings needed a big-bodied top six player for cheap, so Bertuzzi replaced Hossa. Eaves is an RFA so we can do whatever we want with him. They both value all these things over an enforcer based on their actions, not just some inconsistent quotes. I support the team whether they make the moves I think they should have or not. You don't. That's where the disagreement is. This is not about having a fighter on the roster. Unfortunately I suspect your position isn't even based on wanting a fighter on the team, but rather wanting a fight on the boards, so carry on.

The real way for the Wings to solve the problem of being too small to intimidate is to suck for a few years and be able to draft guys like Getzlaf. Unfortunately, the harder they work, and the better they try to be, the more the deck will be stacked against them.

And even if May is on the ice, in the scrum, willing to fight, it still plays into their game. We beat them with gritty goal-scoring, not grit divorced from goal-scoring or vice versa. We were gritty enough to beat the Ducks, but not healthy enough (because of the Selke-winning shot-blocking of Pasha, and the Sharp spear) to beat the Pens. The grittiest player we lost coming into this season is Samuelsson. Bertuzzi, Abdelkader, and Helm should have been enough to cover for that. Hopefully May can contribute all season.

Interesting response from McLeod. I actually see Babcock fully willing to bench Maltby. He did a few times last season and in the playoffs I think. Draper stays for his face-off ability, rotate May, Maltby, Helm, and Abdelkader. Could work.

I actually thought the Wings focused too much on physical play in the Ducks series. They were running around a lot looking for hits.

There isn't a time when this statement is inappropriate.

Well, it shows that it's okay for someone to change their mind, right? Or maybe it shows that a team will defend and encourage each other no matter what the makeup of the team is. If the latter is the case, then you'd do well to follow that example.

No one ever said he was useless as an enforcer. He was pretty ineffective in doing anything else though. Cap space is limited so it's important to get the most out of every player. If May can forecheck and occasionally fight, in fact, if he never fights all season, but can grind out the puck in the opposition zone more than his own I'll be more than satisfied. Will you?

Except when that professional's name is Ken Holland, right? For me, if Babcock says it's true, then I guess I'm wrong in saying it has no effect. With that said, I expect results, and will judge May's usefulness according to his performance, not my preconception.

No one is anti-enforcer. Could you please stop making up opposition arguments? We have no reason to believe that Holland wasn't going to sign May once the try-out was granted. Unless Holland offers May the try-out, you'd never have made the prediction that he'd be signed. So you can keep trying to punk him or you can accept the possibility that prior to you starting this thread, the Wings GM already had a mind to signing a tough guy. On the one hand you'll lose the satisfaction of declaring yourself the prime-mover behind the May signing, on the other hand you'll probably be in agreement with the rest of us in the real world. I'd like to add as a caveat, that I don't mean anything in this (or any previous posts) to be excessively inflammatory toward you or anyone. I enjoy debate like any other guy, but it's annoying when one side continues to misrepresent my position.

No, they're actually smaller and weaker.

If Perry were to run Datsyuk, and on the next shift Babcock played May with Holmstrom and Franzen, and May beats up Perry, wouldn't the Wings be liable for a fine (instigator rule)? I'm not at all well versed on the nuances of that rule, but I think that happened to Philadelphia last year.

No one here is anti-enforcer. No one here argued against signing May; I actually promoted this as a good move a few pages back. If anything we're anti-Holland-bashing for moves he doesn't make.

I did really like his attitude when FSD interviewed him. He didn't look too bad out on the ice either. If he takes a cheap two-way contract, and clears waivers (which seems likely at this point), he'd probably be a great presence in GR. Eventually a spot will open up for him.

I still disagree with your premise that a fight sends the message that dirty hits are unacceptable. This is not the first of either for Shelley. This really isn't Exhibit "A" proving the necessity of enforcers either. It does prove that Ivanans can and will drop the mits, but it doesn't prove that Shelley is going to think twice about a dirty hit. As I said before that whole shift is the metric by which guys like Shelley measure their effectiveness. Additionally, isn't Ivanans a wussy European?

Just because I disagree with your comments about Holland doesn't mean I have anything against you personally. I was being intentionally absurd to call your attention to your poorly-reasoned argument.

Brilliant deduction, Holmes! Of course by that logic you are either a pompous chump who actually believes he'd be a better GM than Ken Holland, or you're a thirteen-year-old pip-squeak who thinks he's the Tie Domi of the internet. Again, no one here is anti-fighter, or anti-enforcer. Well, except your straw-man. Holland made the decisions he thought would best position the team for success. Maybe he overstated Samuelsson's contribution to the powerplay, maybe he swallowed the "Eaves-is-the-next-Cleary" Kool-Aid, but that cannot possibly be known after only two games. The Wings aren't in the position they are for the lack of an enforcer. Do the players he signed have a downside? Certainly, but so would Moen, Grier, Malhotra, Odjick....

I mentioned Ott earlier, I'd also take Scott Hartnell or Lucic. None of those guys will be available to Detroit when they're worth anything however.