Zune

Hes no better than he was in the Dallas series, where he got benched for being mediocre. I mean hes 46 and its a great story but if we werent up against the cap, Quincey, Kindl or Ericsson would be playing ahead of Chelios. I can't see him making it to 50, at least not on this team.

Not at all really, although I do agree that Lidstrom is declining. And when your game is 100% positionally based, you can't get slower or you'll get caught. My argument isn't about Norris trophies or whether or not hes the best defenseman in the league, its about the percieved importance of him to this team. Does he play a key role? Yes. Will this team fail, or even misstep the day he retires? Doubtful I would argue that both Zetterberg and Datsyuk are more important to this team than Lidstrom. Lids does rack up the assists but he hardly scores like Mike Green. We can find a suitable replacement to play the point on the power play(Not Rafalski) that can take wrist shots and slappers knee high so Homer can tip them. Bouwmeester would be a perfect replacement.

Ok, lets just say both Z and Hossa leave for greener pastures. Homer-Dats-Hudler Franzen-Flip-Leino Cleary-Helm-Samuelsson Maltby-Draper-Kopecky Lidstrom-Rafalski Stuart-Kronwall Lilja-Lebda/Meech Conklin Osgood Howard would be signed to an offersheet, id take the picks. Thats just assuming no one is signed to replace either player. The cap savings would be around $9 million. If I were Wings management I would seriously think of poaching various restricted free agents from teams close to the cap. That is of course after signing Hudler. I would also seriously consider Bouwmeester, even if Lidstrom doesn't retire. That than opens up the possibility of trading Rafalski. Kari Lehtonen will also be a free agent and both Kessel and Krecji will be RFA's who will get much bigger deals. The Bruins can't afford Begeron, Kessel and Krecji together. Theres various ways to spend the money more productively. Or just trade Flip, keep Zetterberg and Frazen

The captains role is to lead but if you're debunking the points argument than why is Lidstrom fit to be captain? He doesn't fight, hes not really vocal and honestly hes no Steve Yzerman. Comparing Yzerman vs Datsyuk vs Zetterberg is flawed. Its Lidstrom vs Datsyuk vs Zetterberg and when I see that, I see three of the same kind of players. One just happens to score a little more frequently. Your opinion about Zetterberg being better defensively is fine but the sports writers decided otherwise.

We're discussing "Future captains" the concept of anyone but Lidstrom being captain is laughable. The discussion is Datsyuk vs Zetterberg and what makes a good captain. So far, the only thing in Zetterberg's favor is... 1. His beard 2. His chick 3. And the unknown intangibles, that don't include "Leading by example", playing hurt or clutch scoring. So I guess he rescues baby kittens from trees, its really the only answer.

"Best captain ever" is debatable but i'll give in just to end that argument. The legend of Steve Yzerman is being a clutch player, even while injured. He didn't consistently lead the team in scoring because unlike today, in the post cap world, we could pay Yzerman eight million to be a shutdown centerman. We had Shanahan, Kozlov, Fedorov, Larionov and Hull. Yzerman didn't NEED to score because that wasn't his role. On the other hand, Datsyuk and Zetterberg's role is just like Yzerman's (Shut down center) but they're also expected to be point per game players.

Datsyuk and Zetterberg didn't play together in 05-06 and the first half of 06-07. The second half of 06-07 is where Zetterberg caught fire, playing with Datsyuk and Homer and the line remained together for the season and a half. They haven't "Always" played together so the sample size is a little bigger than you may think. And if you recall, which im sure you don't, Datsyuk scored 87 points in 05-06 playing on a line with Shanahan and Draper. It was terrible, it had no chemistry and he still lead the team in scoring.

The cap is DECRESING, its a fact not fiction. Its going to decrease to $56 million and than moreso after that. Any argument about inflation or different cap totals is ridiculos. Relatively, the cap will be 10% higher at best between the season Datsyuk's deal took effect and when Zetterberg's will. And Hossa turned down $100 million to sign with this team. Hes leading the team in goals. Even if he decides he wants to cash in there are other players out there who are becoming free agents and restricted free agents that will take less than Pavel and will fit just as well as Zetterberg. You're seriously underestimating the Zetterberg hype and upper hand he holds in the negotiating process. He scored 90 points, got nominated for a Selke and won the Conn Smyth. Anything short of an MVP, he could be the highest paid player in the league. Which is fine, theres plenty of teams out there willing to pay the price but my point is that hes not better than Datsyuk, a guy who will make considerably less, in a comparable cap setting.

Ive watched every Wings game since 1996. But if the standard is in fact Yzerman, how does Zetterberg compare, if at all to Stevie Y? If media reports are correct, Datsyuk played in the 06 Edmonton series when he couldn't even walk on one leg. And if we're discussing clutch, who was it that scored the final two goals in game six of the Anahiem series in 2007? In an attempt to tie the game and keep the series going Dats, scored both goals in the final ten minutes.

Id be willing to bet that those "Intangibles" are the same that led the Wings brass to giving Datsyuk a seven year deal. In other words, you have no specific example of why Z is better fit, you're just using three year old quotes from Wings upper management for your case. The only thing holding Datsyuk back before was not showing up in the playoffs and now hes silenced his critics. What else could he possibly do to qualify for being captain? The Dr. Ramani commercial should be enough.

Less than Zetterberg, yes. Which allows us to sign a guy like Hudler or Frazen. Before the playoffs and even after I wasn't sold on Frazen but this season its obvious. His shot is insane, as long as the Wings make it clear that he needs to improve his skating somewhat, I see no reason to not give him a long contract. Losing Zetterberg sucks but hes an eight rounder, developed for nothing and cost nothing to acquire. Its the cap world and we wouldn't lose Zetterberg for nothing, we would gain $8-$10 million in cap space. Maybe the Wings win the cup this season and Lidstrom feels the need to retire? That extra cash allows the Wings to sign a guy like Bouwmeester or go after Kovalchuk, both of whom will get less than Z as a free agent.

Whats your point? His game isn't about world class skating. Hes a fourth liner, who excels playing with Datsyuk and on the PP. Hes a specialist of sorts and with the new rules he doesn't take as much "Abuse" as before. The only thing going against him is the fact that he stands in front of 90+ mph slapshots on game by game basis. If he can avoid getting hit in the face, theres no limit to his playing career.

What cannot be observed on the television? Work ethic? Locker room presence? Getting along with teammates? Datsyuk isn't Terrell Owens, he isn't a locker room cancer that the Wings keep around because he produces. You're dealing vagaries because you have no argument. Its a very simple question, what does Zetterberg have that Datsyuk does not?

I never said Lidstrom's ability was overrated. His worth to the team is. Like I said, hes so consistent that life without him seems impossible, when in fact we saw a glimpse of it last night and really, it wasn't all too terrible. Post lockout, people thought the Wings would have trouble making the playoffs without the likes of Yzerman, Shanahan and Fedorov and nothing changed. The same will hold true with Lidstrom. The collective talent of this team is more important than anyone player, including Nick.

Z has said he wants to finish his career in Detroit. Hes the reigning Conn Smythe Winner and the last time that happened in a contract year, Brad Richards got an insane contract. Coupled with the fact that Z has in fact been underpaid, its the worst of all situations from a business perspective. Does it really make sense to give Zetterberg a ten year deal? Making $2 million more than the team scoring leader? Or the ungodly Nick Lidstrom? I appreciate Z for what he is. A good center but he needs to be paired with certain players to succeed. And if you want a repeat of the last season and a half, he needs to be paired with Datsyuk. On the other hand Datsyuk can be paired with anyone and finish with 85 or more points. In my eyes, when you have Flip making three million per season on the third line and hes shown he can center the 2nd line, its an obvious choice of Franzen + Hossa over Zetterberg. Datsyuk is wasted playing LW, even if it looks good, hes too good of a faceoff man to be playing wing.

Im asking you, what does Zetterberg have that Datsyuk doesn't? What makes Zetterberg a better candidate for captain other than the fact Yzerman may or may not have said something along the lines years ago or that Ken Daniels seemingly repeats it along with everything else in his brain per game. I can respect a decent argument but none have been presented. Zetterberg has been bested by Datsyuk year in and year out. If Yzerman and Lidstrom can "lead by example", why can't Datsyuk? The only time the argument against Datsyuk was even valid was during his playoff struggles, before the seven year deal and before the Selke. Now all of the things people used to somehow make Zetterberg seem more appealing, (Better defensive play, better at faceoffs, shows up in the playoffs, hits more, etc), all goes out the window. This isn't about downplaying Zetterberg, hes the second best player on the team, apparently, thats impossible to comprehend. It seems pointless to spend $8 + million on a second line center, even with his defensive play. The only way he can justify such a contract would be scoring 50 goals THIS season or at the very least leading the team in scoring. Hes playing with Franzen and Hossa, theres no reason he can't get it done. Especially when Datsyuk has 9 points in three games playing with Homer and anyone else they throw at him. Its been stated many times in this thread, Datsyuk is more valuable because he makes the players around him better. While Zetterberg is at his best playing with a playmaker like Datsyuk. At this point the argument for Z being captain is because he has a cool beard. Thats the strongest point ive heard so far. The real question is how many years does Datsyuk have to lead the team in scoring before hes done playing second fiddle?

The cap was going to be 52 million the year Datsyuk signed, its going to be $56 million next season and less the following season. And some, scratch that, most would argue that the problem with the Wings is that they don't have an exciting standout player that attracts fans to the game. 1. Datsyuk is funny and consistently the best interview on the team. Watch his Selke and Byng winning speeches from last season for evidence. 2. Nick Lidstrom is efficient and could possibly be the best at what he does but hes boring. He plays a boring style, hes a boring interview and hes too safe. 3. Datsyuk is a highlight reel player, even on a national scale. He hits more and fights. Zetterberg or Lidstrom's ability to verbalize hockey cliche's says nothing of their leadership ability. Why does everyone love an Ovechkin interview? Because hes funny, he speaks broken engrish and hes an amazing offensive force. Does anyone actually care about hearing Sidney Crosby, Jerome Iginla or Joe Thornton talk? They all sound the same and all read the same book of canned NHL responses. As far as Zetterberg being the superior player on the PK, thats up for debate. Datsyuk gets the majority of his take aways in the defensive zone, along the boards. How many times a game do you see him skating in his own zone with two or three players on him and he makes a pass to get it out of the zone? Zetterberg is the "Safe" defensive player. He doesn't make mistakes but he doesn't take risks either. Its the risk that allows Datsyuk and Hossa to have odd man rushes on the PK. Or allows Datsyuk to strip the puck and get rid of it. Its really an argument of whether or not you prefer passive or aggressive defense. And really, arguing which of the two is a better defensive player is pointless. Datsyuk has a Selke, nothing will change that. The only arguments ive ever seen in the past regarding that is posters who think Z should have won because they prefer his style. Faceoffs taken over the last three seasons- Z: 2636 taken, won 54% Datsyuk: 2303 taken, won 56% Penalty Kill time over last three seasons- Z: 408.38 minutes D: 372.47 minutes Keep in mind that Babcock finally started using Datsyuk on the PK three seasons ago.

Except the fact that Datsyuk is the better faceoff man, always has been. Everytime the team needs a goal with the goalie pulled, Datsyuk or Draper take the faceoff. Ive yet to hear one decent argument for Zetteberg being a better captain "Cadidate" over Datsyuk or anyone else on the team. English has nothing to do with it, Datsyuk talks, screams and ******* at the refs more frequently than Z, fights, blocks more shots and scores more points. Hes everything Zetterberg is but better, yet he can't be captain because Zetterberg can speak slightly more clearly? Idiotic If Z didn't take his terrible five year deal making $2.6 milion, this wouldn't be a discussion. Z took his market value at the time and now he looks like a hero because he outperfromed his contract(A bad decision on his part). The only way I would automatically appoint Z next captain would be if he took a long term deal for the same cash as Datsyuk. If he is expecting $8 million than thats not leadership, its greed.

You're deliberately taking things out of context because you can't actually defend your points. Lidstrom is overrated because we've never seen this team play without him for a long period of time, EXCEPT 06-07 when every defenseman was injured and Lilja was our #1 guy. That was used as the "Doom and gloom" aspect of losing Lidstrom. Honestly, I don't think this team will miss a beat when Lidstrom retires. This isn't 2002, his role on the PP is much different, he takes wrist shots for Homer to tip, as opposed to standing on the right point and ripping them glove side. These same arguments happened at the thought of losing Yzerman before Datsyuk and Zetterberg came around. Guess what? The team kept on moving and perform at a higher level than even the 2002 team. You can't throw your entire bankroll at the feet of a 35 + year old player, even Nick Lidstrom. The entire concept of "Loyalty" and holding onto players past their worth is what ruins prospects and leads to having tons of RFA because they spend four years in the minors waiting for a spot that a veteran is keeping warm. The payroll bar should be Datsyuk, until he is outperformed, no one should get paid higher.

Holmstrom isn't going anywhere, playing on a line with Datsyuk and on the PP, he could play for five or ten more years.

Before this season, Hossa outperformed Zetterberg. During this season, Hossa has outperformed Zetterberg. If we had a choice between drafting Zetterberg or Hossa, everyone would have wanted Hossa. Hes the exact player we've been lacking since Shanahan started playing a soft mans game. Zetterberg at this point is redundant and as the stats show, hes done nothing to suggest that he should be paid more than Datsyuk or Lidstrom. And its not bashing Lidstrom, its just another case of a player being overrated by a fan base who still can't comprehend going from an eighty million dollar pay roll to a fifty million dollar pay roll. If you're going to spend $7 + million on a player, he should be able to pot 40 goals, regardless of position. Everyone suggests that Lidstrom runs the PP but its cleary Datsyuk. Datsyuk hold the puck, Datsyuk makes backhand passes from the goal line, makes ridiculous passes to an open Lidstrom or Rafalski. Theres no one suggesting that Lidstrom isn't a great defender but hes a defensive defenseman who happens to play on a great offensive minded team. Take Holmstrom or Datsyuk out of the equation and his production on the offensive end would drop drastically. And this is the same guy people wanted to throw $10 million at when the cap increased. Kronwall looked just fine replacing him on the PP, so maybe the legend of Lidstrom is in fact a result of never getting injured and coinicidently the one time he actually did get hurt, so did the rest of the D corps so the team blew, which was instantly blamed on Lidstrom being sidelined. The fact is, until now we've never seen a team without Lidstrom but with a remaining, strong, defensive group. Personally, I hope he misses multiple games, just to show that he is human after all and that a defenseman, even a multiple Norris winner, isn't more valuable than a forward.

I think its safe to say that the loss of Nick Lidstrom to this team is being overblown. As we saw tonight and have seen in the past, the team plays fine without him. I guess the Lidstrom myth grew pretty large due to his consistency to stay healthy and the massive injury hit in 2006-07 that left us with Meech and Lilja as our top pairing. The real question being, does it make sense for this team to be spending nearly fourteen million on two defenders? Especially with Ericsson and Kindl in the pipeline.

Keep both, let Zetterberg walk. Two four goal scorers > One 35 goal scorer who won't take the sniper role unless paired with Datsyuk.

Flip has shown that he can play the role of a second line center. Let Zetterberg walk and stick Flip on a line with Franzen and Hossa. Holmstrom-Datsyuk-Hudler Franzen-Flip-Hossa Call up Helm to play on the third line with Cleary and Samuelsson and you'll have an insanely balanced lineup that can fit under the cap. Unless Z takes Datsyuk money or Lidstrom retires after this season, signing Zetterberg will gut this team financially. AKA back to the days of Datsyuk-Zetterberg-Holmstrom and no secondary scoring to speak of.

Zetterberg is the perfect example, he and Datsyuk have rarely played a single shift together this season and yet again it looks like Datsyuk is going to lead the team in points and out perform Zetterberg. On pace totals, as of today: Z: 80GP 33G 41A 75P D: 82GP 32G 58A 91P Datsyuk has and will lead this team in points for the third season post lockout and more than likely would have during the lockout. The stats have shown in the past that his performance actually increases when Z is out of the lineup. Hes the reigning Selke and Lady Byng winner and Z had his best career season while playing with him. While Datsyuk also did see a ten point increase on his person best total. Pavel also scored 87 points, two seasons in a row before scoring 97 last season. In the same fashion, Zetterberg seen a 4 goal and seven point increase from his person best playing with Datsyuk. Playing with Datsyuk also let him be more of a shooter, resulting in 100 more shots taken, compared to the previous season. All of this being said, its clear that Datsyuk is the most consistent Red Wings player in the lineup. Past playoff no-shows aside, hes the offensive leader of this team. The PP runs through him, every shift he creates a scoring chance, even playing with guys like Flip, Kopecky or Cleary. It seems with fans around these parts, they're more excited about what they think Zetterberg will be, instead of appreciating the fact that Datsyuk is already that. Hes the best player on the team and hes doing things that all time Red Wings greats have also done. Someone please make a decent argument as to why Zetterberg should be the "Next captain" or should have ten mill thrown at him per season and i'll listen but none of it is backed up by statistics or reason. Its mostly the same crowd that thinks Detroit will die when Lidstrom retires, the only reasoning they have is the stretch of games two seasons ago where Lilja-Meech was the #1 pairing and Ericcsson, Quincey and Ledba rounded out the rest. It baffles my mind how underated Datsyuk is, if he were Canadian or Swedish he would be the golden child. If Z wants a penny over $7.4 million or dare I say $6.7 million, than the DRW should let him walk. Filipulla is being wasted on the third line and Franzen and Hossa both bring the same game as Z but are more physical. Holmstrom-Datsyuk-Hudler Franzen-Filipulla-Hossa Leino-Cleary-Samuelsson/Helm Maltby-Draper-Kopecky Lidstrom-Rafalski Kronwall-Stuart Lilja-Ericsson/Lebda/Chelios Conklin Osgood/Howard Thats a solid lineup and much more stable than spending the farm on Zetterberg, paying Ovechkin money up front in an attempt to lessen the cap hit on a massive 7-10 year deal. If we keep Zetterberg, the reigning Conn Smythe winner, TSN "Player of the year", you can count on losing Hossa, Hudler and possibly Conklin or Franzen. The fact is, even though hes done alot for this team, the biggest problem with Zetterberg is the fact that he has too much hype. Its the same problem Tampa Bay got into with Richards. Yes, he stepped up during a 25 game playoff but on the other hand, he only outscored Hossa by one point and Datsyuk by three, he hardly blew the competition out of the water.