Nogood

Yzerman never faced this situation in the cap world. Lidstrom was the second highest paid player in the world for the 2000s and Yzerman was earning eight million to play a Draper role. Fedorov was making $10 million and Shanahan on his final contract with the wings was making $6.5 under a very low cap. The only reason Lidstrom's cap number is in the sevens is because of the 24% roll back post cap. Yes hes taken less but not dramatically less. Before Crosby's new contract, he was still top five in terms of contract, in the league. What I am saying is that Z would have to take a MASSIVE discount to make the loss of Hudler and Franzen to be worth it.

Holmstrom-Datsyuk-Franzen Leino-Flip-Hudler Cleary-Helm-Sammy ?-Draper-Maltby Lidstrom-Rafalski Kronwall-Stuart Lilja-Meech Osgood Conklin The loss of Hossa is impossible to avoid, the cap is going down and it was a one time only deal that such a perfect storm of players over performing their contracts would happen. Do you guys realize that Z only makes $2.95 mill? That four or five million increase means we lose Franzen or Hossa. The lineup I posted is hardly full of "Scrubs". And after next season the deadweight will completely be gone, with another likely decrease in the cap.

Can Z score 90+ goals and score 200 points? If the answer is no, than yes. The most conservative estimates still mean that keeping Z and Hudler means losing Franzen, Sammy and trading Flip.

Half of you still haven't figured out the cap yet. You don't lose players for "Nothing", you gain capspace with their loss. And for Zetterberg it would mean at least seven million in space to help retain our roster. There are too many NMCs and NTCs on this team to make any other moves. Draper, Maltby, Cleary all have to stay. Flip is the only guy that COULD be moved but he played great as our second line center in the playoffs and hes signed relatively cheap for five seasons. Zetterberg and Hossa are nice to have around but aren't necessary. The ball really is in Zetterberg's park, this team could stay together fairly well if he took a sizeable discount. Seven million isn't it. The only way to maintain depth on this team is if everyone takes short, discount deals. Whcih means, we run into the same problems in a couple seasons. You can't have this much money tied into so few players. And really, Lidstrom doesn't need to retire at all and any of you expecting him to take $4-$5 million per season is delusional. Hes noting to take four million less than hes worth while winning the Norris. You guys claim hes the best in the league, claim hes the best in the world and say hes the second best D-man of all time, yet want him to take a massive discount?

Rather have Bouwmeester..

You have Franzen taking a million or two less than he would get on the open market. You have Z taking nearly a million less than he could get. And the same goes for Hudler. Thats three million and the additional cap decrease expecting puts us millions over the cap. So the only way it works is if you lose Hudler or Franzen. So the team loses Conklin, Franzen/Hudler, Hossa and Sammy. So in place of keeping Z, we'll instead lose our starting goalie(debatable), 30 goals from Hudler, 30 goals from Franzen and a solid role player in Sammy. Hossa doesn't matter, he was a one time deal. The only way it makes sense to keep Z would be to trade Flip and hope that Zetterberg can score 50 goals, while centering his own line.

Half the season is over and the only reason for Zetterberg's current play is a "Slump". You know those darn 40 game slumps, they happen to the best of them. Go to site with a little less bias for one team, like hfboards, see what other fans think. Most think the top three for the Selke thus far are Richards, Datsyuk and Kesler. This is a site where Zetterberg, two months ago was considered the best player on the planet... I go with what I see. Datsyuk is playing better than last season and barring injury is going to win another Selke. Richards is on pace to have a better season than Z did last season and obviously this season. This is a simple discussion and you're not adding too it. We can't make predictions for awards this soon? What about the 3/4 mark? Do I have to wait till game 82 to bring it up?

The numbers I proposed earlier: Hudler @ $3 million Sammy @ $2.5 Franzen @ $5 Those aren't high, Hudler is on pace for 30 goals and 60 + points and Franzen has the wave of the playoff hype going for him. Pittsburgh fans are clambering to have a shot at Franzen. You're assuming that everyone in the lineup will take a discount and its just not going to happen. Some guys wan't more playing time, some want more money, they're all not amazing guys who will do anything to help the team, they have families and their own personal interests. Why is it so hard to understand? If we can give meager increases to Hudler, Franzen and Sammy at the cost of Z, its not the end of the world and the team maintains its depth. We'll be in a good position for 2010 when the cap will drop even more and we'll be losing guys like Draper and Maltby.

Z plays with Hossa... and for the majority of the first half he was paired with the Lidstrom pairing. Holmstrom-Datsyuk-Franzen Cleary-Zetterberg-Hossa Both are evenly matched offensively both are pretty even defensively. Z isn't at a disadvantage, he just isn't playing as well because hes not paired with Datsyuk.

Im acting like he doesn't have a chance because he doesn't.. Last season Mike Richards wasn't nearly playing as well. Now hes on pace to have the same season as Z had last year, except he hits more, plays more on the PK and scores more short handed. Datsyuk speaks for himself And Madden and Kesler are guys that get nominated because some still like to nominate purely defensive forwards.

No, instead it should be looked at in terms of value to the team... Its basically: Franzen, Hudler, Sammy vs Z We won the cup with all four of them, I prefer having three cup winners in the lineup over one.

You have no reading ability. "Lets go pavel" made it seem that somehow Zetterberg would win via write in or some other means. The top three vote getters for each award are the only three that can win it. And Draper won it when the game was different and the criteria for the award was different. Z won't be in the running for the Selke because: Datsyuk Richards Madden Kesler Are all ahead of him this season.

Malone got 7 years, 32 million. Franzen will get more than that but the point is moot. Assuming that both players don't resign with the Wings, that still means that the team is $7+ million over the cap, assuming that Larsson and Helm are the replacements, than its more like $8. We can't have Z, Datsyuk, Lidstrom and Rafalski all making over $6 million, its insane in the cap world. I mean, it would help if we had depth in Grand Rapids at forward but outside of Leino, there aren't any top six forwards that could step in and play right away. Helm is great but hes redundant on this team with the likes of Draper and Flip. If we add another player making seven million, this team will lose its depth completely. Hudler, Sammy, Conklin, Franzen and Z are all in for significant raises.

You can't win the trophy unless you're a top three finalist. Datsyuk and Richards will be there. They're both going to score 90 points atleast and are playing amazing defense. Like I said, Madden finished second in voting last season. Hes more than likely to be in the running than Z. And yes, offensive production does have something to do with it. Players like Datsyuk, Richards and Zetterberg are only considered for the Selke because while their defensive play is great, they score nearly 100 points. If you're going on purely the best shutdown forwards in the game, a guy like Pahlsson would probably win. Z can't take that much of a hit in production and still stay in the running, it won't happen.

Do you understand how tight the cap is going to be next season? Hossa will be gone, -$7.45 mill Zetterberg is in for a $4.5 mill + increase Hudler will more than likely get $3 million if not more Kopecky probably won't be resigned, -$500,000 Samuelsson will get $2.5 mill Franzen will get a hefty contract Chelios won't be resigned, hopefully, -$750,000 Conklin, if kept, will recieve a bigger contract. Howard will be gone, If the cap stays the same and doesn't decrease, which it won't, we currently have $400,000 in cap space. In order to keep Z and depth, we don't have enough cap space. Assuming that Franzen gets $5 million per year, Conklin will get $2 mill per season along with the other raises ive shown above, you're looking at least $10 million added to our lineup. Which would put us millions, upon milions over the cap. Lose Z and its much, much more manageable.

Z last season: 75 games, 43 goals, 93 points, +30 Z this season(Projected): 80 games, 30 goals, 75 points He was third place last season in Selke voting, behind Madden and Datsyuk. Datsyuk won by a large margain. This season, Mike Richards is having a Datsyuk like season. So its safe to assume, with a twenty point drop in production that Z won't be considered.

Again, Datsyuk's line plays against the other teams top line. He also plays on the PK, just as much as Z and Draper. Datsyuk and Richards are the two front runners for the Selke. Z doesn't have a chance and the only guy from your list that does is Madden. But his stock has dropped from last season. The Datsyuk vs Zetterberg debate is pointless, its the easiest situation ever to compare and the only thing you can cling to his that Z is on the 5 on 3. I don't want to go through pages of discussion to get to that point because its all you have and really, its impossible to debate. Z plays on the 5 on 3 and Datsyuk doesn't, although he does, if and when the puck gets cleared. Again, i'll take the opinion of hundreds of professionals without an obvious bias over your's and your zinger of a point.

Says the "Sources" in various articles claiming that 7 million @ ten years is in the "ball park" of what Zetterberg is looking for.

Money talks... Datsyuk and Zetterberg, post lockout played a season and a half together. During that season and a half, Zetterberg's stock rose to where it is at today. When not playing with Datsyuk, he had a season like he is having now. With Datsyuk, Zetterberg is: - A 40 goal scorer - A selke nominee - A 90+ point player Without Datsyuk, Zetterberg is: - A 30 goal scorer - A point per game player who doesn't use his linemmates well. Datsyuk, with or without Z is: - A selke winner - A 100 point player - A 30+ goal scorer, more like 40 this season. This isn't a "Slump" and it couldn't be more obvious.

Shero came out in the media, pissed that Hossa virbally commited to re-signing with the team. And it has nothing to do with god complex, its simple actually. You take everything in the media to heart, you act like Z won't consider going to another team and you act as if the Wings owe him everything. There are plenty of cheaper options out there, having two #1 centers is a privalege we can't afford. Having Datsyuk and Flip as our two centers is fine too me and that saves nearly $5 million off the cap, money that can be used to sign Hudler and Franzen. Holmstrom-Datsyuk-Franzen Leino-Flip-Hudler Yes, we lose Z but we gain depth. Or we could have: Datsyuk-Zetterberg-Holmstrom Leino-Flip-Cleary ?-?-? Maltby-Draper-Kopecky Depth has allowed the Red Wings to be contenders for a decade. We're in the cap world and losing that depth to keep one player is insane.

This season suggests that, because the difference between both players is obvious now. You're also confusing Datsyuk being humble with fact. Zetterberg would have said the same thing. I'll take the opinion of hundreds of independent observers who happen to be sports writers over a teammate praising another teammate. The move from wing to center has done nothing to Datsyuk's game. His faceoff % is higher, his takeaways are on pace with last season and hes probably going to match his +/-, while scoring 100 points. The "Loss" Z on his line has done nothing to Datsyuk's stake in the Selke. But the loss of Datsyuk has all but removed Z from contention.

Datsyuk isn't a shutdown center? he completely eliminated Thornton during the Sharks game. Your "Shutdown center" was a minus 4 and the Sharks second line dominated Z. This season exposes Z for what he is, a PPG player who is defensively respondsible. Unless hes paired with Datsyuk, hes not elite and hes not a Selke nominee. As it stands, Datsyuk, Richards and Kesler are going to be the finalists. I wonder if a "Slump" can last the span of a ten year deal?

Hossa signed a one year deal.. it was a calculated risk in order to win the cup. Now if he took $7 mill for a few seasons, you would have a point. Tampa was a contender when they won the cup. They weren't a Cinderella team. Richards was also viewed as Captain material, because leading up to that Lecavalier had been striped of the C and wasn't performing up to expectations. Ive yet to see anything that leads me to believe that Richards was just cashing in or that Zetterberg is "loyal". Its just an assumption that Zetterberg is loyal. PS: Hossa said he would re-sign with Pittsburgh and said that he liked playing there.. Oh my god, an athlete lied!!!?

Zetterberg is an good two way, 30 goal guy without Datsyuk. Its not a coincidence that his best season came while playing with Pavel. Z will sign for more than seven per sesaon and thats the problem, hes not worth that much to THIS team. On the other hand, there are plenty of teams that will pay him just like Ovechkin, Malkin and Crosby. Lose: Z and Hossa Keep: Flip, Sammy, Hudler, Franzen, Leino, Conklin, etc. I prefer team depth over a one line team up against the cap. Lets not get started on the "Future captain" argument. That has no bearing in contract negotiations and lets not act as if this team would fail miserably with Datsyuk having the "C".

Shanahan didn't cause Fedorov to drop 20-30 points per season while guys like Sakic, Forsberg, Kariya, Jagr and Selanne were scoring 100+ points. Stop re-writing history. Fedorov was clutch in the playoffs but his best season came and went, he phoned it in after his 97 contract. Datsyuk is the second coming of Fedorov and you can't accept that. Which is why you constantly run the guy down in every thread and hype Z. You just can't accept that your favorite player is being replaced.