Probie

Ok folks, I'm not one to panic and say the sky is falling, nor am I one to be negative when things get bumpy. So don't flame me. I have some honest suggestions on ways to improve the team after watching them win 3 years ago and see what they need three years later. I have been watching them for about 21 years. -The team that won the cup in 2008, worked harder then the one today, had more passion and was willing to sacrifice more to get to the next level. FACT. -The team that won the cup in 2008 has the same main core today, however that core collectively is 3 years OLDER. FACT. Lidstrom, Rafalski, Holmstrom, the elder statesmen of that core have declined in terms of speed and overall ability, while other core players have gotten older but have not only not improved or improved enough to pick up the slack caused by the older core players sliding. -Management has the idea that they can entice players to sign better deal like contracts if they offer the players the ability to stay longer, offer ntcs etc etc. That reduces the competitiveness of the players as they are not motivated by fear of losing their jobs or getting traded. This weakens the team. FACT. If you look at the benefits of using this approach vs the negatives (better contracts=deeper team vs less motivated and competiveness), I don't think this strategy has really helped them as a team at all. Watching this team last year and especially this year, they are seriously unmotivated. This lack of motivation has to/had to change, but has not. Blame management for not fixing this problem. As well, I feel the team lacks the rah rah, take charge motivating vocal leader needed to whip the players into the right playing form. -This team is one of the smallest teams in the nhl. FACT. We lose too many battles for the puck. This is the one thing we are hurting for in the SJ series right now. -3 of 4 of our top prospects that are in line to make the team in the next 2 years are all quite small. We are already too small now, if we inject these players into our lineup in the next 2 years we are going to be even smaller and will be basically manhandled by most teams. FACT. We need an influx of size if these players are to come into the lineup. -Our team the last few years has been injury prone, and I think of all the liberties taken by other teams because we have no enforcer or even formidable fighter, is mostly or fairly, directly related to this. FACT. A guy like Shawn Thornton or Matt Carkner that could play 40-60 games in a limited fashion would not hurt the team much on the ice in terms of performance but would limit injuries and make our team play more physical much like downey did due to the fact the players feel braver. Less injuries would occur due to proper protection of players. -Even the rest of our (outside of Lids, Rafs, Homer) core is getting older, and soon will be on the downside with no players close enough in skill to fill those gaps. Lidstrom and rafs are near the end, although they can play quite well still. But they will be gone soon. All of our other good players belonging to that core, Dats, Z, Mule, Cleary, Kronwall, Stuart are all 30 or older. None of these players will improve and in all likelihood have already reached their peak. You need young players coming up to fill these holes, and they don't have anyone good enough skill wise to do so, except Tatar and Smith, and they may not have the potential to match those leaving in skill. You also need a mix of skilled vets and youngsters as the youngsters produce at lesser contracts, enabling more depth. We have all our older top guys locked in at higher contracts, we have no serious deals. Remember having Z at less then 3 mill, mule, hudler etc at bargain basement contracts yet still produced large?! For those reasons, they need to trade an older vet or two for some skilled youth so you have a balance. -Stop signing older players on the decline to multi year contracts with ntc’s. Limit the 35yr+ signings as well. Holland is suppose to be a genius. Act like one. -After watching our teams play the sharks the last two years(and a few other teams), its apparent that Detroit lacks proper size, and a bit of speed to deal with SJ in particular. They lose too many puck battles and races to the puck. If you could subtract a few slow guys, and inject a few bigger faster guys, it could make all the difference in the world. Our back end could use some more size and nastiness as well. Lets look at some potential moves. Please don't flame its hard to get trades and values to satisfy everyone's opinions of worth, but I will try. Adding SOME players I like on Forward(not all): Chris stewart(trade), Jason Chimera(trade), laich(UFA), Erik Cole(UFA), Simon Gagne(UFA), Upshall(UFA), Defensemen like Pitkanin(UFA), Bieksa(UFA), L.Smid(trade), Bogosian(trade), Matt Carkner(trade). These are just some potential moves off the top of my head. I'm not saying we get all of these guys, or these are the only guys we should go for. Guys we should lose, trade or not resign to make spots for players we need to fill certain roles are: Flip, Hudler, Homer(wont happen thought NTC), you could move Bert (but has partial ntc and is still a decent player), miller, ABS. Not sign Erricson, eaves, Draper. Yes i like eaves a bit too(We need to fill needs though). Of course a prospect or two and a few picks could be included in these trades mentioned below to make their values accurate, as its hard for me to judge accurate trade value, people are always ready to pounce and start flaming so hold off. Everyone sees player values differently. Also we might want to move one of our core players that are a little older. Our prospect pool is deep enough to warrant the loss of a prospect and the odd pick to make some of the trades work and would be replenished somewhat if we did move one of the older players. Player movement during offseason: *Hudler + Kindl + ~2nd(2011)=Bogosian (might have to add a pick or prospect to make it work) *Nyquist + flip + pick(if needed)=Chris Stewart (perhaps minor tweaking to make the trade work). yes i like Nyquist too but you have to give to get. *prospect + ~2nd(2012)=L. Smid (guessing it gets done with minor tweaking) *Prospect or pick= Chimera(or a Chimera like player, fast and strong, good in the corners, doesn't have to score lots, good on the pk) *Bertuzzi = prospect or pick. Sorry bert, I would rather move Homer, but he has a ntc, you only have a partial. Probably wont happen, nmc could make this difficult. *Kronwall=prospects and or picks. I love kronwall, hes a deal at 3mill, and is skilled. It harder to trade the other core players that have ntc or are too old to trade. Pitkanen would be a good replacement or close to. -> Sign Pitkanin, Laich, Cole, Upshall as UFA's. For a decent back up Josh Harding would be nice as a ufa as well. lets focus on D and forward first though. This is probably a stretch, but all forwards and d mentioned have size, and Cole has speed and size and is physical and capable of winning puck battles. Laich is a big body who can score and win battles. Upshall is also a battler, and great along the boards and can skate decently too and can put some points on the board. You could have lines like (not set, they can move around): Cole - Z - Cleary Mule - Dats - C. Stewart Upshall - Helm - laich Chimera - Homer - Mursac -Role Player and/or Partial Enforcer and/or tough Physical forward. 1st Line is: Cole is 6'2 205 skates well, and can score, Z is Z, Cleary is 6,0 205 and can skate and score. The line can win puck battles and score. Has grit too. 2nd line: Mule is 6'3 220, can skate and score, Dats is Dats, Stewart is 6'2 225 and can score, win battles for the puck. The line has good size, bit of grit, very good skill and overall above average speed. 3rd Line: Upshall is 6' 197 and is fierce in the corners, skates well and can score a bit. Helm is Helm. laich is 6'2 200 and can score a bit and win battles for the puck. The line has two good players with speed with a big body that is not slow and can score. Laich is a UFA. 4th Line: Chimera 6'2 220 is real fast, a physical puck battler, who can pk well. 6' 200 homer is homer who doesn't fit on any line anymore almost, Mursac has blinding speed and some scoring upside, and wont be only a perimeter player but is kinda small. This line has great speed minus homer, and has SOME physicality. A solid fourth line. 13th forward: Somebody that has some decent size and or can fight. Konopka anyone? If we opt to not go for this type of player, perhaps a guy like HTD could make the team and see somewhat limited action, and he at least would bring size to the table (and of course some skill). Defense: Lids-Stuart. rafs-Pitkanen Bogosian-Smid Matt Carkner 1st pairing stays the same, Lids and Stuart. No kronwall on the second paring. I mentioned above, that someone from the core gets traded for youth, and or picks, its him, although he isn't perhaps the best one to be moved, but someone from that core while they have decent trade value needs to be moved, I picked him. I like him, but someone has to go, and he has no ntc. Flip has to go, he lacks too much offense we need a better scoring 2nd line center plus he has return value. Pitkanen is a possible free agent pick up. I might be unrealistically getting too many UFA's, but it's possible to get him. Pits is a good defensemen and is 6'3 210 and can help clear the crease, play good d, and generate some offense as well. Bogosian is young and has good potential but is still a little raw, is 6'3 205 and will fill out to 215 or so as he gets older, and has good mobility and ability. It was rumoured during this season he might go to detroit, and the rumoured players were kindl and hudler and a pick. Hes big and strong and loves to hit. Hes not asked to have a top 4 role yet, hes on the bottom pairing for a year till rafs and lids retire. We need bigger players on D to handle bigger forwards that play on teams like the sharks for instance. Smid is 6'3 225 pounds and can hit and shut guys down as well as clear the crease. I don't think he would cost an arm and a leg. Carkner is the physical enforcer/depth Defensemen that can play 30 games a year or something like that. He is the 7th D man. He will help to keep our guys not injured and help clear the crease and handle bigger forwards when he does play without being a total liability on the ice. Our 3rd defensive pairing looks quite good. Josh Harding might be a decent backup for Howard next year and hes a UFA as well. Again, we have increased team size(more then any other category), speed, ability to win puck battles, and toughness. I don't think we have hurt our ability to score either. We are still a team of skill. I think we would match up much better with the Sharks if we play them again next year. Bigger forwards would be handled better by our bigger d. Our D might not generate as much offense as this years, but it would still be good, but it would be better suited to handle bigger forwards. Our team would of course be better suited to wear teams down in the playoffs. Also the fresh faces and movement of players would end the comfort zone that has been brought on by prior Redwings management decisions, and would act as a wake up call to all on the team and would certainly help motivate the players to compete better which obviously helps the team. The new players would be motivated to win the cup and this would help rub off on the others. Again, i don't want to get flamed for trying to be unrealistic in possible trades, I mentioned those trades would most likely need tweaking for them to work. These are not the only players that would help our club in the areas I mentioned we needed help in. There are lots of other options. I don't want to get flamed either for unrealistically picking up too many free agents although I may have, to an extent, listed one too many UFAs for us to realistically pickup. I didn't pick all the premier UFAS, nor all the Mid Tier UFAS, but I picked ones that are possible and fill our certain needs. Roster moves and approx salaries of those picked up require a slight decrease in pay for lidstrom of about 1 mill(might not be possible) and the cap moving up about three mill like has been rumored. Bogosian's salary although not understood by many is not close to three mill like many people think unless he reaches the lofty performance incentives that he wont... his salary would be a nice chunk less. Anyways I thought I would throw some ideas and observations out, and of course you all are welcome to discuss...

As I already said I don't want Kronwall to go, please reread why i said what in the posts above. yes I agree to an extent however, how much has free agency really helped us as we are not that active in it. Hossa was one year, and rafs helped us for a bit no doubt. However all the NTC's do hurt our ability to keep guys motivated as they know they are not going anywhere. It also hurts our ability to move guys when they should be moved. Detroit could still be able to lure players in by the knowing that they treat their guys good, and you are right having deals makes more depth, but they should also xeercise to an extent that people that underperform do not have secure jobs all the time. there has to be the need for some change from time to time when problems are evident. Their has to be some understanding of this and more motivation. No one here can say motivation during the regular season was not on display as being a problem for this team. Its hard to make changes when you cant, and icing the same team year after year creates stagnation. That's my only point. Sure some of these deals were good a few years ago, but we are now locked into contracts like drapers, homers and rafs that could be hurting the team. You cant use a 6 million defensemen to kill penalties of even use him as a 2nd defensemen guy (as of last year) this year and next year? How does that help the team? Sure those contracts helped a bit at first, but not now. In all is it really a plus overall when you factor in how much it helped at first to what it hurts us now? What about when you factor in the fact that it does hurt motivation? Its a tough call. I'm just saying we could still offer deals for security but not absolutely, I think if we exercised the threat of change once in a while, but still kept the same mentality i don't think we would hurt ourselves too much when it comes to players playing for less and could help motivation up. Btw, were ARE NOT the only team to have players sign for less to make a team stronger because they like playing there. That goes on all the time.

Just because Edmonton didn't want Pitkinan doesn't mean that much, there is a reason Edmonton has been picking near the top of the draft for a few years now, and improper management decisions has everything to do with it. What is it with people wanting a player just for fighting.I don't want a boogard, i even said two names of guys that can play a semi regular shift without hurting the team too much, and they don't have to play 80 games either. You want to get rid of Kronwall too. No I dont want to get rid of Kronwall. read what I wrote to another poster: "My only point about having to trade one of the core for younger players, and or picks is that most of our core like rafs, lids, homer wont and or cant be traded or have no trade value. If we were to swing a deal for part of the older core(i think kronner is a bargain and a very good defensemen and i would gladly trade others out of the core if i could) is because he does have value, and could be replaced via free agency, or close there too. All the other older core have ntc or nmc or no value. Its something you don't want to do, but you cant watch all our top core players walk into the sunset and get nothing out of them. That was all." Lets just get rid of the future number 1 who's already proven he can take Nicks spot.I like Kronwall, but hes not a number one defenseman, maybe a number two, and he hasn't proven he can take nicks spot or he would have as Nick has slipped a bit. How many times has Kronwall won a Norris or been nominated for one? I disagree with you. Again, I like the guy hes good, and has a unique skillset. Good god the only one I can agree on is Laich. Your sure? Cole is a good UFA pickup, as is Upshall. Cole is superior to a Miller or Homer, or Draper. Cole is coming off what many people consider his best season, and his stats this year place him 5th in scoring on our team, and hes bigger then average and skates fast and is physical. Something we need, and getting him for free through ufa makes sense. Upshall is both stronger, more physical and more talented then a guy like mIller or a guy like draper(now). Again getting him for free is not a bad thing.

I said we have more injuries then we should because we are unable to protect our players in which a tough guy would lesson. Yes Gagne is injury prone, he is on my radar, but if you look at my roster/lines i didn't add him. I would only be interested if he took (and will likely have to take) a lesser salary due to his injuries that makes it worth while. I'M WELL AWARE If HIS INJURY HISTORY. Thanks

Oh yeah I'm not saying they are, I'm just pointing out obvious weaknesses(that have been apparent for a while) and ways to fix them in the offseason.

Hey Crymson why don't you try reading what people say before being a dick. This is what I wrote dude [in bold]: "Ok folks, I'm not one to panic and say the sky is falling, nor am I one to be negative when things get bumpy. So don't flame me. I have some honest suggestions on ways to improve the team after watching them win 3 years ago and see what they need three years later. I have been watching them for about 21 years." Notice how it doesnt focus on the first two games against the sharks. Even if we end up beating the sharks, our weaknesses that I identified in my post, have already been exposed not only in this series but in others as well. We have a weakness in size and the ability to win puck battles and i merely said we should address it. Even if you win, a team should always try to get better, and that starts with the things that is the biggest glaring weakness. My tone will remain the same. I don't have time for video games bro and I don't even know what eastside Hockey manager is man. Lets READ what I said about Trades: Of course a prospect or two and a few picks could be included in these trades mentioned below to make their values accurate, as its hard for me to judge accurate trade value, people are always ready to pounce and start flaming so hold off. and I also wrote… I mentioned those trades would most likely need tweaking for them to work. These are not the only players that would help our club in the areas I mentioned we needed help in. There are lots of other options. These two things should have been read first….. Lets look at what i wrote about the trades and what is written in the brackets: "Hudler + Kindl + ~2nd(2011)=Bogosian (might have to add a pick or prospect to make it work) Notice how it says "might have to add prospect or pick to make it work”? Notice how it says "~" which means "approximate". This means potentially more, maybe a second AND a third for example. *Nyquist + flip + pick(if needed)=Chris Stewart (perhaps minor tweaking to make the trade work). yes i like Nyquist too but you have to give to get. A pick means "a" pick, and can involve what ever pick that it needs to be to make the trade work. "IF"that were a 1st with flip and Nyquist who is a very good prospect, COULD it be good enough? Perhaps. Plus it says "(perhaps minor tweaking to make the trade work)". Enough said. *prospect + ~2nd(2012)=L. Smid (guessing it gets done with minor tweaking) Again "a" prospect (which can very in quality to make the trade workable), plus "approximately" a 2nd(maybe a third on top of that) for Smid is not some rip off. Again lots of room for value in my wording. *Prospect or pick= Chimera(or a Chimera like player, fast and strong, good in the corners, doesn't have to score lots, good on the pk) Look at what Chimera has been traded for in the past, again this is not far fetched.

Yes i agree with what you said. My only point about having to trade one of the core for younger players, and or picks is that most of our core like rafs, lids, homer wont and or cant be traded or have no trade value. If we were to swing a deal for part of the older core(i think kronner is a bargain and a very good defensemen and i would gladly trade others out of the core if i could) is because he does have value, and could be replaced via free agency, or close there too. All the other older core have ntc or nmc or no value. Its something you don't want to do, but you cant watch all our top core players walk into the sunset and get nothing out of them. That was all. Yes the blues wouldn't likely let Stewart go but my point is a player like him (some size and skill-size we need) is important to us. I thought Zack Bogosian was on the block during the season, as the were multiple articles mentioning this. Detroit was rumored, and the package rumored was Huds Kindl and a first. I said "Hudler + Kindl + ~2nd(2011)=Bogosian (might have to add a pick or prospect to make it work)". Now my idea is less then what the middle season rumor was but both hudler and kindl raised their values towards the end of the season imo. I also said "might have to add a pick or prospect to make it work" as its hard to guage players true values, all folks like us can do is knowledgeably speculate, and it could take more then i thought to get it done. I don't think Bogo is a #1 defensemen in the making, and as a former top pick he is overated by some because of his draft position, but he does have potential and he was in my post penciled in as our bottom pairing guy till more spots open in the 2012-2013 season and when he has improved after another year. Young guys need time to develop look at JVR even last year was rumored to be on the block and was a bit of a disappointment and the asking price then wont be even close to what it would be now as he blossomed into a good player. I don't see him being worse then our bottom pairing guys this season. I acknowledge he has a ways to go as a player. Yes I agree the strength of our team needs to be the defensemen like you said, and having what I mentioned as Bogo and Smid on the bottom pairing is an improvement on what we had this season in that spot. Those two have size and the ability to clear the crease and be physical, more so then Salei and Erricson. Thanks for a well thought out post.

To answer the title of the thread: We are not risking our future to land an elite defensemen, we are merely trading assets to obtain such a thing. You are paying a lot to get a lot. I would say we should trade picks and prospects, roster players etc to Land Adam Larson this year at the draft. That would be our elite defensemen in a few years, and if he plays this year(he could have been playing in the nhl at 17) he could be taught by Nick this coming year(he sounds like hes coming back for one more year). Get her done kenny!! 1st 2011, 1st 2012, Prospect and or good roster player or any combo of.

I'm from BC but I'm working in Fort Mcmurray, and cant find anyone from work that can make it time wise to that game, and its the only time they will be in Edmonton this season. If you are interested and want to go for a drink etc, give me a pm or respond in the thread. It will be a decent game and the Oilers have some rookies that deserve a good look.

Yeah I don't think much of Eklund and his rumors. Think one thing though, Imagine Helm, Cogliano, and Mursac on a future 4th line. Insane speed. I think IF, and its a big IF, that IF Detroit was interested, this is what they are thinking, or something along those lines.

Exactly what i was going to say. Give the prospect a bit more time to show what he can do and adjust to the league rather then saying at this given time miller is a hair better. Ritola has better upside clearly give him some time in the league to show what he can do. Stamkos did s***ty his first year, but after some adjusting...not saying ritola has anyware near stamkos' same kind of upside but....he WILL be better then Miller sooner rather then later... Miller is nothing great he was waived and passed on by a number of teams. This team leans towards favoring older players too much at the expense of the kids. I think they take it too far. People always say Detroit has a winning history so management and their decisions should not be questioned. I disagree. Management can be great in a number of ways, maybe all but one, lets not say they are perfect in everything. This is one area i think they they should be questioned to an extent. They keep their team a bit too soft, small and old. I would much rather of seen Mursac stick around then one of the other players. He would be dangerous, especially paired with Helm. Their speed would create problems for other teams and create scoring opportunities.

LOL!!! :hehe:

Hey if Nick retires, Kubina is a UFA. Hes not a replacement for his abilities but for a free pick up, he aint bad!

Yeah I would go for Lombardi. Imagine a line of Helm Mursac and Lombardi! = Mad speed. He would be great for the third line. Scoring depth baby! Not to say those three should be on the third line.

Volchenkov please..... Cant ever replace Nick, but a physical shutdown defensmen in his prime, picking him up for free....sounds real nice. The other players on the team can move into nicks offensive role, not that they can really be as good as him offensively when he was in his prime, but with Kronwall, Stuart, kindl(in the future), Erricson, and in a couple years Smith, they should be ok in this department. I think Volchenkov is just what the team needs. He'll be great on the PK. Plus our D would be fairly big and physical.... What do you guys think about a deal that pays him 4.5 mil during his prime years, but with a deal structured like Z's or Mules, where it lowers the cap hit to say 3.75 mill.....???

Yeah he started off ok, but has been not so great after that.... # Goalie GP MINS W L SL SO GA GAA Svs SV% 31 Daniel Larsson 20 1120 11 8 1 1 52 2.79 506 0.907 35 Thomas McCollum 16 872 7 6 0 0 45 3.10 353 0.887 TOTALS 33 1992 18 14 1 1 97 2.92 859 0.899 Taken from: http://griffinshockey.com/news/stats/ I`m not giving up hope or nothing, I know goalies need time to develop...

McCollum sure isnt putting up great numbers so far...wasnt he suppose to be our future goaltender? I know you dont give up on goaltending prospects quickly, but so far not so great....

Double post, mods feel free to delete.

The Wings will draft THE BEST AVAILABLE PLAYER at their draft spot, and not by position/need. If we were to pick a position when drafting its because they rank two or more players at the same ranking number, and those players play different positions. This teams strategy was to cheap out on the goalie and make up for it with a dominant defense. In 08-09, Lids and Rafs were considered the wings best two Dmen. It would make sense to me that either Lidstrom is hurt, or has aged overnight, or both. Rafs is on the downword slope too. If Rafs is done in a year or two, well then its quite possible the teams two best Dman (from last year) are both gone. That hurts. To me the most important position that I see that needs to be filled is defense. To be honest, so what if Kindl has a good toolbox, i dont see him becoming another Rafalski. I see him being a #3 Dman with decent offensive potential. To me Smith will be a little better, maybe a number2, maybe. Either way, I see our D weakening and keeping with the teams strategy a TOP D man is most important. Volchenkov would be a great addition, maybe for free if he reaches free agency...If Lids retires at the end of the season. He wouldnt be able to move the puck like Lids and Rafs did, but as a physical shutdown guy, hes great. We need physicality. Volchenkov, Stuart, and Kronwall would be do some good damage to other teams forwards. Erricson and kindl have size and could, if they wanted to, lay some hurt. Imagine if big Kolosov makes it , I could see him possibly taking Liljas spot sometime soon. You have some big physical guys on defense. I think it would be frigin great. Volchenkov 6'1 225, Kolosov 6'4 215, Kronwall 6' 190(but hits hard anyways), Stuart 6'2 210, Erricson 6'5 210, and Kindl 6'3 210. I dont think many teams would like dealing with that. As noted by others, we do have a bunch of scorers with 20-30 goal potential, mostly 20 goal potential. So it would be great to have a 40+ goal guy but they dont grow on trees. Off the topic slightly. I see looking at our prospects, and the positions that need to be filled in the near future, we have to end up making some trades. Too many 20goal or less hard working types, and no elite talent. Tatar might be a 30-40 goal guy, he has something, but thats in the future, and the future is not certain. Grigorenko never panned out...s*** happens. I hope he does pan out, I was stoked when we got him in the position we did. Ive been off the boards since August, as Ive been away working far far away. Its nice to be back LGW people, even if its only for a few days. Merry Christmas to all. Enjoy the Holidays.

Tatar has the higher upside compared to Ferraro, even though he was picked 2nd by the wings. I think he is going to pan out too and reach his potential. The wings draft so late in the draft yet they still get great players. I luv it!! :chug: I almost wish we could fast forward a few years to see how these kids turn out. To anyone who watched the games so far, how has Dick Axellson looked so far? ANy input it apreciated. TIA

Homer started last year on a tear putting up good points early on. As the season wore on, he slowed down and got injured and by the ned of the season (playoffs) he was on the third line. Unfortunately, I think this year will be similar. Hell start out on the first, but cleary will take his spot later on. I want Prospal. We need the firepower, plus he hits. Just for a year.

All the more reason for a tough guy. Remember the interviews of our players saying Downey gives them a charge of energy? Its cause he goes out and hits, and it gives them the idea in their head that they can play a more physical game with him around cause someone can stand up for them.

I agree with this, but I dont want Burtuzzi for the reasons already medtioned. Propspal I would be stoked to have him aboard. He replaces Hudlers production, andin 07-08 we had no Hossa, so we have similar firepower. Only thing is we lost Sammy, and to me thats no big deal, his output can be replaced by others. Worst case is Grier, he atleast has some gas in the tank, and brings grit and leadership. I would really like it if Axellson could somehow make the team this season. He was close to a ppg with Farsted this season, so, if he has a good camp, i hope he could make it. I know the wings intend to keep in Grand Rapids this year, but I feel we keep our guys down a little to long sometimes, and our veterans around a little too long.

All the more reason to get rid of Bettman and start doing things properly. IMO the league has looked bad over the blatant Pittsburgh Crosby bias over the Wings, the way they have handled the whole KHL problem, and now this contract stuff. You better make it clear in the rules, because once there rules, its peoples job to make the best contract work out for their own benefits. If it says its not illegal in the rules, its not illegal.

This years mistakes dont appear to be Talons, even though he said he would take the heat for the free agent mailings screw ups, and of course like mentioned Havlat was who Talon wanted to sign, not Hossa. Looks like the new Braintrust in Chicago isnt so good after all. I love it. I`ll be so stoked if Chicagos new high powered offense is let down by its defense and goaltending in the playoffs while we keep going. I want someone to throw patricia kanes mouthpiece onto the ice again this year too.