Probie

Every possible flyer move has JVR's name mentioned in it...why? Why are they willing to move a prospect with so much potential that they just drafted?

I dont get a chance to watch the griffins play. How has he looked so far the last few games or any of those games you've been able to watch? I cant wait for him to make the team and stay on it, we need his physical presence.

They throw in a free game here or there, its random. You gotta pay to see the games you want. I just tried the $10 for a month as a test, cause i was sick of crappy feeds and just wanted to enjoy a game being able to actually watch it all, and not 50% of it due to lagging and tech difficulties.

Exactly Howard should have had one of the four goals tonight, but three against him considering the situation and the opportunities is acceptable. You cant judge a player based on one game. Howard has talent, he needs more then one game this year before he gets hung out to dry. His 2005 stats are "ok" but he didnt even play that much and he JUST got out of College, and in 07 his stats are quite good in four games. In fact the same save%, 0.926 would land him ahead of backstrom(4th best in the league) and behind Vakoon(3rd best) this year. hardly bad. The only way you can evaluate a player is if you play them. Below are howards stats for Detroit. 2005 Detroit NHL 4 1 2 2.99 0.904 2007 Detroit NHL 4 0 2 2.13 0.926 " It will try and fail. Team defense is not close to last year, the lines aren't jelling as well as last year either they are constantly being juggled and our main competitors(sharks) have got better, Boston is going to be very hard to beat as well. We are winning games based on talent and offensive firepower, not on balanced team play. Its a team game, and weaknesses are exploited, and we were well rounded last year, we could beat you with both offense and defense, now its offense almost exclusively with a few stellar defensive and goaltending jems thrown in for fun. Our penalty killing is a SERIOUS problem that can sink us in the playoffs quickly. I hope our defense is somehow strengthened at the deadline although it wont be easy to do. I also prey our goaltending is strengthened at the deadline too, but with Osgoods status/situation it makes it hard to move him and make room for another goalie. It sounds goofy and wont happen, but if Osgood cant pull it together real quick(i doubt he can but hope he can), i wish he could almost fake a lengthy injury to make room to bring in another goalie...yeah i know its not feasible but it could work. I think we wont make it out of the western conference this playoff, and Ive been watching this team since 1989, unless these weaknesses get fixed or atleast improved upon we wont make it out of the western conference finals. I can see the difference in play of the team this year, and they are good, but they are not going to make it. If somehow we could rent a backstrom or Roloson for the playoffs,...something that wouldnt cost us an arm and a leg Id feel much better. We deemed Quincy unworthy after all of 13 games in the nhl, 1 game in 05, 6 in 06, and 6 more in 07. He was only minus for one of those three years too. Was he worse then meech or Chelios(this years version) or even Lebda? Not really. And if given more then 6 games in a year maybe he would have gotten better, sat out a game or to learn, and then hop back in there. I think Howard stopped developing and sufferered "rot" in the ahl after he got sent down last. Seems the only way the new guys stick here is if they clearly outplay the current players. Now after ONE game they are sending howard down, in a game everyone and their blind grandma knows the team(especially defense) was poor. After ONE game. How about playing him for more then one game or atleast play him in a game where the team shows up and then you can evaluate him better. I could see if Howard gave up 7 goals tonight, but he gave up 4, in reality I felt the wild should have scored 3 with the chances they had. This is not proper player development. I truly feel that this teams strategy on who plays "now" is based on short term results with winning at all costs at the present being the deciding factor. In other words "the opportunity for a youngster to come in a for say 20 games, and maybe suck a bit at first, learn a bit adjust a for a while, then towards the end of the season improve enough to surpass the veteran hes maybe challenging" this never happens cause we are too worried about the short term and not the long term. Go look at Quincy: http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/players/Kyle_Quincey/ Hes on pace for 45 points in 79 games, closer to 50 if it was a full year, plus hes a plus player on a weaker then average team. How is that for development. let the kids play and they can show you what they are capable of. Lets look at his successor/replacement Meech: http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/players/Derek_Meech/ If Meech played 84 games this year ON THE SUPERIOR REDWINGS at his pace he would have 9 points and be -8 If Quicny played 84 games ON THE INFERIOR LOS ANGELAS KINGS at his pace he would have 48 points, and be +2 What would Quincy stats be like if he was getting top four minuted on this team? And yes I know Meech doesnt play defense all the time, and our D is deeper than then kings and Q wouldnt get the same offensive opportunities but you know what I'm getting at. On another note, I must say, Holland and Babcock want to do everything to win this year with this current team of players cause its so loaded with talent since we will lose a couple players at years end due to the cap. But Babcock and Holland perhaps think they have the same team as last year(plus Hossa), but they dont have that team regardless of the names on the jerseys, they have a more offensively talented team(with Hossa and Lieno-depth) which is not as good defensively this year nor does it have the same goaltending, so in reality if he wants to go all out take off the blinders see it for what it is and make the changes. Osgood was brought here in his last stint with Detroit as a backup, and thats what he is. Goalies can be hot and cold, and have really good stretches. Osgood was the back up last year, hasek was shot, and Ozzie came into the playoffs and was red hot, and no one can take that away from him. Butbackups are inconsistent. Now out of that great performance hes seen as the go to guy this year with Conk the back up. But osgood is just a back up, and NOW hes showing you thats what he is, he is very incosistent, which backups are. Now we bring in a career backup in conklin, he plays on a very good team and his stats are going to improve because of this, plus he plays kinda hot this year. Pople think wow, this guy can take us to the playoffs, But hes a backup, and they are inconsistent, and get cold, and what if Conklin the backup shows up in the playoffs? You want to roll the dice with osgood this year as a replacement to COnks if he turns into Mr backup come the playoffs? No way. Detroit has erred in their goalie pholosophy this year, a back up having a good year on a good team is still a back up. Why enter the playoffs with two backups? Conks is a backup playing above his usualu self this year for now, on a good team which helps his stats, but he can cool off and be his backup self. If they could get Backstrom or even a low end starting goalie ike Ellis(yeah i know he hasnt been as good this year as last) to back up Conks in the playoffs or lead the team into it, I would feel much more comfortable. Ellis has got what a 0.905 % this year, which would be a .913 or so on this team, which is not bad, hes not a huge addition but hes not bad, and hes got a 1.5mill cap it. Perhaps if this team hadnt a better go to goalie all these years, they wouldnt have 4 cups from 95-96 onwards they would have maybe a couple more.,..look at the talent on those teams it was rediculous. If the wings made one trade of a veteran player to improve the team, i really believe the team will not be considered to be unloyal, they still have a great track record. I hope they can see this and not hurt the team out of some blind sense of loyalty. Players get traided, waived, it happens. The team comes first not stubborness. So in the future do we let all our top guys just fade out and we get nothing in return ever? Its hard to dominate when you pick at the very bottom, and just let all these players ride off into sunset for nothing unless you have insanely dominant drafting-we have great but not that good. This team has done lots for Osgood already, go out and improve the goalie situation, atleast somewhat. You wont have another wing team this talented again for a while with this economy and cap direction. Our offense is insanely talented, we could lose a Filpula to make room for a goalie without our offense not being #1 still in the league IMO, it wont make a diff. Go out and get a world class goalie or atleast improve on it until the kids (Howard Larson or McCollum) are ready.

I love my team but i dont think we show enough patience in playing our young guys before we deem them unworthy. In hindsight quicey just needed some more oportunities and playing time to develop. We need a physical Dman that can drop the gloves from time to time, and we had him right here. Tsk Tsk

Some hard work by Lieno helps us get the goal...

LOL, or him blowing bettman. I can see it. "Penguins shocker, news at 11"

After reading a little bit about this, the rape and or drugs angle is what I would guess it would involve

Depth with a capital D, I love it. I think this will be the best bunch of forwards any team has seen,and will see in quite some time in the good old cap era.

I've been begging for this to happen, it almost guarantees a cup with the rest of the team we have. We might have to throw in a pick(2nd or 3rd) to sweeten the deal. Lieno, whom we got for nothing can take his roster spot without the offense really skipping a beat. Granted we might not be able to sign backstrom during the offseason. From the info that has leaked out, it seems Franzen is shooting for 4million a year here. If for some reason he doesnt sign, that potential 4 million could go to signing backstrom at the end of the season. I initially thought he would seek more in the open market, but i read an article yesterday saying hes seeking between 4-5 per year to stay in Mini....if he likes our team, and drinks the cool aid, he MIGHT go for the 4 million. If i was Holland I would do this in a heart beat. Please make it happen kenny From a free agent stand point over the last year, and taking into account the losses we would take for this to happen, were still better then a year ago in terms of personal. We gave up zero for personal to get Lieno and hossa. Hossa Lieno and backstrom is a nice chunk greater then losing franzen and flip. (Lieno+ Hossa+ Backstrom) > (Franzen + FLip)

Maybe we can move draper, and osgood for some of these:

Soo many Osgood Goalie panic threads!!! Nobody has mentioned Telquist, hes onky 800,000 a year: http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/players/Mikael_Tellqvist/ yeah maybe hes a backup, but he could back up Conklin in the playoffs. I'm not sure the yotes would move him unless they were out of the playoff picture, but i could be wrong. What do poeple think? I would love to drop flip for a draft pick, have lieno take his place, use his pic and maybe a another minor pick/prospect to get Backstrom. If we had him, and Babs gets the teams attention and they start working again towards a defensive puck controlling team they were last year, they have an awesome chance to repeat IMO... It sucks to give away flip to basically get Backstrom(not traded directly for), but the thing is Lieno we got for free and could take flippers place in the lineup. So in a way by singing lieno, we get a free pick out of the deal(if you follow me)...

I was thinking if this was last years ufa time, people would have been more willing to throw more money his way. Now compare to this year with the economy in the toilet, and rumoured cap space decreasing maybe next season and continuing to do so after words, teams might be more skeptical not to throw such huge long deals at him, or atleast most teams might, not to say people arent going to offer him lots of money though. Considering all these things, what would teams on the open market this year be willing to throw at him? What lengths? $7mill 8 year contracts or more? I'm wondering how much this guy wants to win...so will he go to a team that offers big bucks whos sucks, or a little less money for a good team? Id kill for him to be a wing, but with our financial constraints, it would be impossible. I'm wondering though if by some bad luck, both hossa and mule walk (huds stays) and there is enough $ would Bowm accept a Zetterburg type of deal, maybe with a bit more money over an extra year or so? Twelve years thirteen, hes twenty five so it he would be 37-38, with the last few seasons paying low amounts like Z's contract. Yes I know Holland would not let both Hossa dn Franzen go , and the event is unlikely...so this is just sorta thoretical. What would Jbow get on the open market, and although its not likely to happen, what if Det could sign him what offer would he take from the wings? Would you guys feel comfy spending Z money on him? I think Z is a better player but Defense is an important position and Jbow brings size, speed, good defensive qualities, and offense, a unique combo.

Yes I said basically I dont see it happening, its sorta theoretical, a "what if" situation. The scenario I discussed above (which i said was not likely) would be two ufa forwards leaving detroit enabling the cap to sign. I'm just curious what his value is, and what he might and not might go for.

Looks like you beat me to the punch here, i was the first one responding to the initial topic, but took too long typing it up, and you posted before me. So much for having the answer first.

Yes 6 Mill free'd up would do wonders to tie up some of our upcoming free agents and give some much needed breathing room. The only problem is that Rafalski has a no trade clause, which is something he wanted, when he was signing here as a UFA. NTC's handuff teams. There is dead weight on the team (no rafalski is not dead weight) but NTC make things difficult to maneuver around. It would be nice to deal Rafalski while hes got some value, and invest his return in youth. Tthere are a few teams begging for an offensive defensemen. I know its probably just a dream but if he was moved for picks/prospects to some team. and detroit frees up another mill or so via trade, wouldnt it be just great to get Bowmeister as a UFA signing for ~7 mill? Switch a 35 year old Dman for a better 25 year old, and get some picks for it as well. Just a dream. To answer your orig question, If the NTC wasnt a problem, keeping hossa over Raf is the better idea, since hes got more years ahead of him. Raf should be slowing down soon in the next couple seasons, hes 35. Atleast you would think hed slow down soon..maybe he might age like Chelios and play till hes 47?? Not likely. This team needs to get something back for all the oldies that are headed for the pasture in the next few years. Lets look at key talented players (1,2): 1)UFA's that could be lost in a few months: Franzen, Samuelson, Hossa, RFA Hudler. (i'm sure well sign Z, which is why hes not on the list, and 1 of last 4 mentioned) 2)Elder statesman that could retire, or become irrelevent/liabilities in the near future (2 -3 years): Lidstrom, Rafalski, Holmstrom. -Now look at the potential losses in the last two lines, and look what you have coming up from GR: Helm, Lieno(if he doesnt leave), Abdelkadar, Erricson, and Kindyl, Howard, Larson. Whats in the system pales in comparison to what will be leaving, fading/dissapearing. To me even with Detroits deft drafting, can that difference in talent be made up in such short time, unless there is an infusion of picks, prospects. Getting rid of the older guys that still have value would be great. The loyalty holland et all have shown, is great but can hurt a team too, and I think it already showing. Signing UFA's is a temp fix, because even signing with a small discount to play in motown, it is still much more expensive then developing a player and have him blossom while under a less then beefy contract like detroit has (Franzen, Z, Hudler etc) done for a while. An example of UFA cost vs player developed contracts is Ryan Malone makes some 750k more then Mule+Z+Huds combined, yet as group they are worth so much more. Btw, been a wings fan for 20 years now, and have been reading these boards for close to a year, even though this is my first post hear. Probert and yzerman were my favorite players. I suffered through some hard times before this team got really good.