talex

No sarcasm at all. Everyone forgets so quickly about the regular season, Hossa was our top goal scorer which may be something we can loose but he also took a significant amount of pressure off our other stars, both scoring pressure and physical pressue because he drew alot of attention. As far as almost winning the cup... if you think it is going to get easier with the loss of Hossa and an even older Homer, Draper, Maltby, Lids as well as the rest of the team I think you are nuts and yes I would give Chicago the edge they now have the jump we got last year from signing the top free agent on the market and they are a much younger team who now has the experience of having gone deep into the playoffs, we are the same team minus our top scorer and a couple guys that have just aged another year. Do I think we have a bad team? NO I never said that, but looking at it honestly I think the Hawks will have a Monster team although Havlat was a large part of their success so time will tell, if they gel with Hossa I think they are the team to beat in the Central. Next year I think they are hurting... loose a couple key players and the Wings are back on top... but this coming season they look damn good, a 1 hit wonder perhaps but I am not going to deny the obvious.

No way next years will be better... older yes, in some ways good, in some ways bad. Alot hinges on whether Homer recovers and is 3/4 or better of what he is/was capable of. I do not see Hudler as a top 2 lines guy at all. Abby has been slated for GR already and Leino is a big question mark as to what he would do in a full time role. I think we seen enough of Big E to assume he will at least be a solid D man and an upgrade overall with Cheli leaving. I do not see how loosing Hossa makes the Wings a better team, in fact I think it is outright silly to even imply it. Sure Helm is finally going to be full time but aside from that we have Draper and Malts who short of a miracle are just another year older. It is unfortunate they could not weather the storm this off season and find a way to keep Hoss but it is what it is, now they will probably try to lock Huds and Sammy down which in my mind will be a mistake. We HAD 2 great top 2 lines... We will now have 1 maybe 1.5. We will have potentially a great 3rd line with much of this depending on Leino and how Helm handles full time duties, his style of play no mortal could keep up an entire season so time will see how he balances his game with an 82 game schedule. Flip a coin on a solid D core if they choose to show up and not let Ozzie get raped as he did in so many games this past season we will be fine, if they play like they did this past year... well unless someone really steps up and replaces those 40 goals and the wear n tear on our other stars... it's just not pretty. We have a goalie that could not stop a puck to save his life during large chunks of the regular season, is only older and a kid coming up that has been a let down thus far and it is looking like we will have a 4th line that is just another year older.... The Hawks will on the other hand be a better team... a MUCH better team, not just with the addition of Hossa but with the playoff run they had as well and I think will be considered favorites to win the Central and possibly the west. No way they ice a better team, a good team... Dats, Z, Mule and an aging Lids... sure they will be good, but better? No way.

I thought LaRose was one of the very few bright spots in the Canes series VS the Pens, but I don't see this happening. The team to beat now just might be the Hawks. I am not optomistic at all about the upcoming season, year after maybe if they make some moves, but not this coming year.

Sullivan would be a decent addition...

My questioning of Leino is not skill, it's that he seems to like to skate around the boards with the puck alot, eventually loosing it maybe that will change and I hope it does. Flip I see as a great guy to gain the zone and setup plays, but he needs 2 good wingers and we have the Mule then ????. I see us needing Big Bodies in front of the net especially with Homer fading, Cleary is great but no Homer. Helm I see as a grinder and not a top 6 guy, pure ball of energy. I never said to get rid of Huds, maybe the size liability speaks to the teams lack of grinding players and not so much meant to knock Huds and like I said as a depth guy I think he is great depending on what they pay.

Homers decline is HUGE to this team. Leino I just do not have the faith in others seem to have. Who fills Hossa's spot on the top 2 lines? If it's one of the forementioned, then even more depth is lost. Draper and Maltby at least played a decent energy game the previous 2 seasons, not the case this past season. I see Helm as good depth, Huds as good depth but that all I see out of 6 spots. Now we have a fairly large hole in the top 6 spots. I am not doom and gloom, but this does not add up well to me for the coming season. The year after this coming season I see with more optomism because of the likely retiree's and Lids contract coming up.... but this next year short of a huge recovery by Homer and some type of super speeder for Maltby and Drapes... well I just don't see it.

They have young guys coming up who can provide depth. Sammy/Huds and an aging Maltby/Draper I would not put to much faith in. 07/08 was last year and the aging guys are now 2 years older and 2 long seasons older. Unless there is a significant change Homer is no where near his old self, Maltby is almost useless and Draper cannot grind like he used to. I disagree with those who think Sammy and Huds are depth is all I was saying, Sammy will probably be gone anyways because more than what he makes now would not be a good deal and as an energy guy Huds would be nice to keep but his size makes him a liability at times in the playoffs... Helm is great, Leino to me is highly questionable and the word is Abby is in GR for another year.... Where is the great depth looking to this coming season, especially now loosing a top 6 forward?

Nobody apparently, looks like we will have 1 great line an ok 2nd line a solid but streaky D core (if they actually play this coming season) and the Griffins. Sammy and Huds are not depth enough to get us anywhere... as seen in the finals. Hossa, Kane, Toews, Bolland, Byfuligen, Sharp... I think the Hawks looks pretty good for Central, Wings will compete but I would give them edge at the moment.

cap hit reported at about 5mil on a 12 year deal.

TSN just stated Hossa to Chicago is done.

Bad news at least as far as I am concerned. I believe in depth, but Sammy and Huds for Hossa... I would take this anyday. Sammy will simply get an offer the Wings should not match, Huds is great during reg season, but his size was a liability during the playoffs and finals so I would not offer him more than 1.5 regardless of the stats thrown up comparing to Flip. As far as Flip... without a Hossa type player with him he is alot less attractive to keep, perhaps Franzen can be the shooter, but Flip simply does not shoot enough and he needs 2 good wingmen with him to shine and Huds is not that guy, Cleary is not that guy and it seems Dats and Z will be on the same line, so we go from 2 Great lines to 1. Sammy and Huds were 3rd line guys, we have Helm, Leino (whom I am not overly on board with, he seems to like to skate around with the puck and seems to lack grit) and Abby who will be in GR another year. My hope was that they could get Hoss signed and then when some $$ free up they could really complete things, but now especially if they throw the Hossa $$ at Huds and Sammy I see a much more difficult road. People can whatever they like, but Hossa did free up ALOT of space and pressure for our other stars and at times made Flip look brilliant. Many point to the fact that we won the cup last year w/o him... well our team is another year older and we could not pull it off with him, clearly the most talented and BIGGEST of the 3 players commonly discussed to say keeping the 3rd line guys and loosing a great top 2 lines makes no sense to me, especially with how high everyone is on our AHL talent, you would think this point at an obvious conclusion that since we have great prospects to fill 3rd and 4th line spots you would go all out to ice an incredible 1/2 lines. Time will tell but it is obvious that the cap is starting to have it's impact and the mediocraty will eventually bite the Wings. Z's back very well could get hurt, Franzen could very well disapeer like he did in the playoffs and who knows what's going on with Dats. Loosing Hossa to me is the worst thing that could have happened. I am optomistic that Holland will somehow make all this work out, but I do not expect nearly as good of a team on the ice in 09/10 as we seen in 08/09. I wish Hoss the best, same goes for Huds and Sammy.

Not that Conks was super great, but from what I have seen of Howard, especially if Ozzie plays the same next season as he did during this past reg season... I hope they really add to the defense because we are going to need it.

The kid is big, I watched a bunch of games this year and he has some real potential. He needs to improve his skating and positioning. He is 6'4 and a big 6'4, built like a tank.

Tombstone Style...

Correct, but the debate has been raging for month's.

I hope Hossa makes a decision soon, I mean he knows what the cap situation in Detroit is, he and his agent can do the math. If I were Holland I would tell him..ok we are willing to commit to x years (where x is 8 to 12). You guys figure out how to make that a 4Mil or less cap hit and we got a deal. As this drags on the Hossa thing is starting to feel like the Favre thing... just get it done already before I puke!

We agree on Hossa, but I do not see Sammy or Huds as attached to this. Sammy most likely will get an offer that will not make sense for the Wings to pay for a 3rd or 4th line guy, same goes for Huds especially if they get good picks out of the deal, these 2 may be gone regardless of Hossa. With Maltby, Draper, Homer and Potentially Lids retireing very soon they need room to bring up some of the GR guys if for anything else to see if they can play in the bigs, preferably before they must have them play well. So some guys will have to go regardless of Hossa's deal or we might be stuck in a pickle, Sammy and Huds salary would come close to or exceed what Hossa's would likely be, keeping them up against the cap...

On another note, I would rather see them just go for it and have him sign a 12 year with the minimal cap hit, or let him walk and bring up some of the GR kids, leaving space to fill in gaps as they become apparent during the season. Either sign him long and low, or see what the kids can do and keep some $$ on hand in case they fail to keep up.

He will obvisouly not get an actual 6 million a year deal cap hit. Drop the stupid rule where capt makes the most, take a chance on a little longer Years 1 - 5 @ 8Mil Years 6 /7/8 @ 2Mil Years 9-12 @ 1Mil Cap hit = 4.1 Mil I know many are going to cringe at the length, but he will be 42 at the end and who knows he could either be a great player still (ala: Lids) and might still be very productive as a depth guy on a lower line or maybe he has slowed significantly, still would be a skilled veteran though. Short of something like that I do not see them signing him, especially to a 10 year deal and make it come out anywhere near 4 Mil cap hit, there is just no way that makes sense. Edit: Did not know the rule about dropping by more than 1/2 not being valid. I still see no way realistically they can get a 4mil cap hit in a 10 year deal, especially if they keep the Capt'n makes the most rule.

Maybe Obama should take that over too.

Watched Howard get mulled in the AHL almost every game I seen, Admirals owned him, call ups to the Wings looked no better. I wish he could get a shot... somewhere else.

I would not jump to any conclusions until the cap is announced. There is no guarantee Hossa will sign for 4 or even 5 mil. There is no guarantee Sammy; regardless of what Hossa does will not get an offer from another team that will make sense for the Wings to match.

kinda sux, I was hoping he would either play with GR or take a coaching role either in GR or for the Wings... I would not write that off in the future given he has the Cheli bars in the D area. I will root for him when he plays as long as it's not against the Wings... unless he wings up in Pitt in which case he can suck an egg.

Both are good at what they do which is different types of play. Both play well with good players around them. I can see a real power house line with a core of Flip and Hossa and any of the following... Homer, Cleary, Franzen, Dats or Z possibly even abby or helm or leino because the core is a strong one that I think would only get better with time. Flip is a good 2 way player solid on both ends, he needs to shoot more and I think his value will rise, but I would love to see a Flip/Hossa core line given more time to gel because I think it has potential to be a monster line in the NHL. Huds size was a liability at times during the playoffs, however he also has great playmaker ability when he is on a line with 2 strong forwards which make up for his size and has more of a scoring flare than flip. I just do not see Huds making the top 2 lines to play with the guys he needs to in order to really shine on Detroit, both are skilled but I think Flip especially if Hossa signs fits better and has a much larger potential. I would love to see Huds stay at a low pay rate but at the same time I would also like to see him get a shot on a top 2 line elsewhere, the possibility of having the Hossa/Flip line is just to juicy to risk in order to keep Hudler.

Cheli is already gone. 1. Keep Hossa (if a 4 to 5 mil deal is possible). I would also shoot to not have a NTC especially so the more the cap hit. 2. Bring up Helm full time. 3. Give Leino a shot in camp, he proves himself, give him a roster spot, if not let him walk / trade him for picks or a decent depth guy with potential and a minimal cap hit. 4. Allow Sammy to walk if offer is > 2mil (which it will be), but he could stay for a simular salary to current and a raise could be considered in a year when some salary may be shed. 5. Allow Hudler to walk of offer sheet is good enough for picks, otherwise see Sammy suggestion about a raise. 6. Keep Conklin if possible, let Howard walk (follow the AHL and he is not what was promised). Obviously due to the cap this is not neccesarily in the proper order, but close. Do the best to acomplish above, Maltby most likely retires either this year or next, Draper to follow, Nick either retires or re-signs at a lower rate, Homer most likely retires in the same time frame, bring up Abdelkader... this leaves us with breathing room in the cap if we can get past till Lids contract comes up which by then the AHLer's that keep getting the world stacked on their shoulders on this forum will have had a chance to show themselves for a full season.