talex

tough call, the lease seems like a good deal, but the joe also seems a bit outdated. it is fairly cramped compared to some of the newer arena's I have attended. In the current economy I would think they will choose to stay in the joe.

02 Wings, age did not matter when they won it all so I am not going to speculate that the players of the rest of the teams in the NHL played sub-par that 1 season so the 02 Wings could take the cup. They had the star power, the drive and the skill to win the cup... Not to take anything from the 97 or 98 Wings teams but that team was a power house and played like one.

Thanks for all the great years Chelli. I was really hoping he would have taken a 2 way and spent some time in GR working with Kindl and Koslov etc, or at the very least took a role in the Wings defensive system like assistant coach, hell even defensive coach. I cannot blame the Wings for letting him go, as he has said he wants to play and the 2 options I would have liked to see were not options he wanted so all's you can say is it's been great Chelli, good luck with whatever you do and keep the great Cheli and Burgers flowing in Chesterfield...

The same lineup minus Hossa will have the season end earlier than this season, calling up a couple AHL 'ers full time I do not think makes up for the regular season goal leader on the team. Also I am not on board with Leino just yet, great goal against the caps, but have not seen enough from him yet to be on board, he needs a monster season if he gets a full time spot since he is not willing to play in the AHL another year. I would not mind if they signed Manny to a cheap 2 way deal, just to have him to call up, especially if Conks walks... have seen Howard many times and not overly impressed. Ozzy was great in the playoff's but was horrid in reg season, goalie is shaky and if anything else Manny has at least played in the NHL and knows the team. Since Ozzy has 1 year left and we only have prospects at the position, it would be great to have Conks around if at all possible. I would have liked to see what the guy could have done with the #1 role where he knew it was his to loose... maybe that's just me. Sammy will get an offer regardless of what we do with Hossa that the Wings probably should not match unless they can justify putting him on the 2nd line which I just do not see, simular situation with Hudler... would it be nice to keep them sure, but not at what the market will likely offer them, so unlike many other I do not see it as soley a Hossa or Sammy/Huds situation, I think they will be offered more than sense dictates on this team to pay.

Griffins then Milwaukee Admirals.

I would not call this a great finals series, in fact it was the worst one I have ever seen. It was rushed and crammed into a small time frame, 1 team was beat up and the officiating was as bad as any I can ever remember. The series made the NHL look like a joke.

epic fail

I personally would not be so fast to move anyone, had this team not been banged up we would have the cup right now. Draper and Maltby may not have put up points but it seemed there was quite a few times when they were on the ice and calmed the momentum down, on a fourth line I would take both. That said, I am still puzzled as to why Babbs took out Abby, he scored goals in the 1st 2 games and was Red hot... I thought he should have let Abby and Leino play at least until they were a liability with how the SCF started... maybe that's just me. McCrimmon - Out, Give Cheli at a shot at his position (I like the burgers at his chilli bars)...

I can certainly see why some would say Huds and Sammy will probably be gone especially with Helm and Leino waiting for a full time gig... As far a Flip goes, he plays well when he has good people around him, a winger or 2 that can shoot the put at the net, if they cannot keep Hossa then they need to get someone who can shoot and is not afraid to, Flip is a good setup man but does not shoot the puck enough and does not look good when on a line w/o a superstar goal man.

Only guy like that is Ovechkin and We will never see him with a Winged Wheel... Hoss at 4 to 5 Mil is a steal, playoff chocker... -=Heh=- what about the rest of the team... Also, everyone looks at the inuries as they come out and say "oh well I don't feel so bad now", well Hoss had to play with those guys as well which changed how the lines were working. Hoss looked to be working hard every shift, just had a drought like many others. With the Cap the Wings need to make it through the next 2 years before the possibility of some real numbers starting to be shed (lids, homer, draper, malts). If they can patch things together (which I think they will have an elite team no matter what they do with lids, raf, z, dats, mule, cleary, flip etc.. especially with Helm, Leino coming up full time, they could loose a Sammy and Huds and stay very elite. Who knows what will happen... but Hoss on the team makes for a better Wings Team. Take whatever Combo you want put... Z Dats Mule Hoss Cleary Flip ...on the ice in any Combo and you have the best top 2 lines in the NHL (1 -2 punch) take out any one of them and it look no where near as dominate. Given no talk of injury I was most disapointed with Franzen in the finals, normally a difference maker, this years finals was barely noticable. Unlike others I have been looking forward to this off season very much, it is exciting to think about what they may do, not to mention Helm full time. Leino... well 1 spin around goal did not seal the deal for me, so it will be interesting. Conks wants to stay, Hoss wants to stay, Sammy is probably going to get some great offers, as could Huds (whom I felt his size was a liablity at times in the finals, but is a high skill guy in reg season). Wings will be among the NHL elite next year and I believe we will be treated to another playoff run next year as well... Although I despise the cap... This offseason is going to be fun, but I guess that's just me.

I like Jiri, he plays with alot of heart. That said his size seemed to be a liability during the playoff's at times. I still say you try to keep him because we do need players to get us to the playoffs as well but if the cap dictates he must go then I would wish him well.

1st this is not meant to take away from the Pens victory, Congrats to the Pens... so please keep this in mind. Reflecting on the season and the product the NHL is now putting forth I have a few thoughts that I posted in another thread, but felt a wider discussion / thoughts would be merrited. I thought the regular season with as long as it is was a fairly good product, fun to watch and follow with it's share of ups and downs. I traveled to see a bunch of games and to add to my home states as well as to support my team, however since the playoff's my feeling on this have changed. I watched almost every playoff game, not just the Wings but as many as I could of all the teams and I was astounding by how poor officiating was and how often the tv personalities would comment on this, we have goals on offsides, 6 men on the ice for 20x seconds, icing goals, interferance complaints by fans of both teams, the no goal call against the ducks and controvery on the Cleary goal in game 7 vs the ducks.... the pinnacle may have been Quinvilles fine over his comments on officiating. The finals felt rushed this year, I did not even feel like there was time to hype the series... it just felt rushed and all jammed in, almost to fast to enjoy it as much as it could have been.... felt alot different from years past for me at least and I did not feel either team had the time to truley play with their best possible rested and ready team. I began to think of how bad the product come playoff time is becoming and came to the conclusion that I probably won't get center ice next year, nor the NHL network... I may not make any trips and purchase jerseys, bobbelheads, banners, octopus, etc, etc... not because I am not a fan of the wings, but because there are better products to spend my money on, especially in this economy, I can get 2 to 4 season tickets on the glass for Admirals games at the Bradley center where the Bucks play for the cost of 1 Wings trip for example.... I can and will watch as many games for free Wings games as I can like many fans do, but I feel the NHL as a product is declining and this is not the players, or the Franchises... it is the league, officiating and marketing people... will the Wings be featured in all the commercials next season as Crosby / Pens were this season? I doubt it, in fact I dread the thought of even turing on anything Hockey releated now especially the NHL network which I was not going to renew anyways because of the poor content and center ice seems very dated and buggy. Being a transplant from MI to WI, I have several friends as well as my Girlfriend and her 2 children that really got involved in the Wings this year... trying to explain why the rules change during the playoff's to them is an impossible task, commentators were not helping this and they are pretty disgruntled as well especially with the time they put into learning the rules of the game over the course of the season during which we would get little caesars for nearly every game on center ice and everyone had to get a jersey of their favorite player... we probably spent $5 to $6k on the NHL this year between jerseys, tickets, travel, hotels etc... to have huge what if's after all that just stinks, especially for new fans recently vested in the product, I can guarauntee it will be much harder for them to care next year if they feel the games are as much up to officating as to the players and coaches... I cannot speak for them, but I think it is a safe bet. Again Congrats to the Pens on their Victory, but I am a dispointed fan, not in the Wings... but in the NHL as a product especially come playoff time. Will I cancel Center ice? I am not 100%, but I can think of no other way to see these issue's addressed and until they do...

1st question's answer, I only spoke to one of them but he said he did not feel it was screwed, he said that it seemed like it was skewed or leaning, not neccisairy every game, but the marketing and hype was for sure according to him which put him off (the usual every other commercial crosby things which anyone who has the NHL network realizes and I believe even Babcock spoke about how the commercials made it look like the Pens won last year, so if anything the socialogical factor you speak of is being propogated by the League itself to the point even coaches are willing to speak to it, so you cannot blame fans, casual or otherwise and it is just another reason to be dis-datisfied with the product as a whole). On scripting he felty it was because I was predicting when whistles would be swallowed and when calls would be made well ahead of time (it was kinda a side game were had been playing) with amazing accuracy. 2nd question is kinda answered by the first answer as well, me predicting penalties or periods without calls probably aids in the scripted feel. I personally do not think you can script a hockey game and have leaned more toward calls being made / not made to add drama to the playoffs and not necissarily to benifit a particular team, just to add drama. Also I do not know where the fixing came from so you will have to clarify. I am the original poster and I thought I made it very clear my complaints were about the NHL product particularly at playoff time and not this series in particular, as you have commented the Wings were guilty of interferance very often as well and the calling of these did not produce consistency or will leave Pens fans had they lost with a big what if which they would have deserved better, especially when comapred to regular season. Perhaps you are satisfied with the product the NHL is putting on the ice and you have every right to that, I on the other hand as well as several friends of mine are not as happy with the product which we also have the right to feel that way, in the end those happy will spend more money on the sport and I will spend less.

I cannot speak for his friends, but I can mine in a simular situation. I explained the rules to them, during the season as they came over (probably with a little help from me throwing out sighs and rolling my eyes everytime a Crosby commercial came on) they formed an opinion that the league loved that guy, as the season went on they felt more sure of it (maybe they were online and read things, maybe this was their own opinions)... I could ask them. But I do know they said the SCF felt staged, scripted or screwed. Personally I am not going as far as to say that it was planned this way, especially since that somewhat implies the Wings would be involved which I will never believe, but I can say I understand what he is saying.

I believe Leino has stated if he is not in the pro's next year he is going back to Europe, so if the Wings do not feel he fits, they should try to get something for him for a trade and not keep him around because of threat. Some of the regulars listed in the "to go" list like Homer helped us get to the playoff's as did Hossa so I am not so fast on letting them go and do not think they will be a liability during the regular season as we can call up Abby if needed giving him another year to develop. Some will have to go, Sammy I feel adds value for the team on the pp and as a 3rd liner. Hudler is a bit harder as I feel like the above mentioned he provides alot during the regular season, but his size was Clearly a liability in the playoff's, again do we have the black aces to fill in his role come playoff's? Do we have a good enough team to make it to the playoff's with out Sammy's and Huds and Homers with the least amount of wear and tear? Would Helm be a burst of energy come the playoff's after playing 82 games in the Big league? Personally there are to many questions and with the information I am able to obtain as a fan I am left with having to trust the franchise and Ken Holland... Has worked out pretty well so far.

Then for starters, the league should call regular season games the way it intends to call the playoff's. Bottom line is Fans of any team expecially with a 7 game series should be able to feel good about thier team and the sport whether they win or loose. All the what if's caused by percieved partialiality by the league or it's officials leave a bad taste in your mouth regardless of win or loose... There is a certain satisfaction even in loosing that comes with a fair fought series with out what if's and a less satisfied experience (and experience is what you get from the product) even in winning that comes with what if's Fans deserve better.

I was still trying to explain the Malkin non suspension to my girlfriends teenage son, I have a Media Center PC, so we recorded all the games in HD, he has watched the stick to the back of Z's head probably a dozon times and keeps asking how he could win the MVP or get away with not being suspended... Attempting to explain this to him I realized how stupid I sounded trying to come up with a reason... because there is no valid reason I can come up with other than league rules were squisshy... don;t know if that;s spelled right... I am trying to keep them involved so I am trying to explain things in such a way as to downplay things like this... the best I can come up with sounds stupid and makes no sense... This situation is exactly what I am talking about as a fan...

Are you unable to read? Re-Read my 1st line. I made no excuses. If the Wings would have won a Pens fan would likely feel the same way. My comments have nothing to do with either team, but the NHL playoff product as a whole. Rule should be the same in playoff's as regular season and they need to come up with a way to make calls consistently. Again as my comments point out, I do not like Winning with a bunch of what if's any more than loosing with them.

It was another pathetic call which may or may not have changed the game, the wings are a good enough team to overcome what they played against and they simply did not. That said, I am not ordering center ice next year nor will I be traveling to watch any games. The officiating has ruined the sport for me to the point I may watch when it's free, but it is not a product worth paying for anymore, if the NHL wants me back along with the money I spend on tickets, jerseys, pucks, etc, etc, etc then it has to start offering a consistent product, I hate winning with what if's by the opossing team, I hate loosing even more and this series had a s*** load and that sucks far more than loosing.

I'll most certainly be watching, however like game 3 if the refs start calling garbage against the Wings or letting the Pens get away with lots of crap, I will shut it off, I just get to pissed off. When the Wings win I will watch the presentation.

I think no matter what happens in game 7, Hossa has done very little in these playoff's to make the Wings want to try and re-sign him, any thought of pushing the cap and letting a couple guys go are going to a much more thought out process than they were before the playoff's and he may be dropping his value in the free market as well, yes he had a great regular season and I am not saying the Wings should not attempt to sign him, but he has done little to make the team feel it has a MUCH better chance of winning with out him. He really needs a great game 7 to dispell this, with the way our young guns have played as well as our solid vets it makes it hard to justify his salary looking forward unless he takes a really great deal or another 1 year to see what happens with Lids... He is not helping himself so far in this series for sure.

I don't mind them "weathering the storm" so to speak as long as they stay poised and don't allow a goal but for god's sake once that initial surge by the opposition let's up, give it back to them in spades. In game 7 please pass tape to tape, not tape to penguin... do that and it will be closer to game 5 then game 6 and #5 will get #5

I wish I could completely agree with your original post, but I cannot. I still say the refs seem to ref based on drama, not intergrity of the game. I agree that most times a team needs to realize the refs are not going to catch everything and will have to over come that. Another poster said it best and I will say it again. Loosing and playing hard without the what if's is not bad and you can even gain respect for the opposing team. All the what if's brought about by the refs leave the loosing teams fans feeling angry and disconnected. Also just because many fans feel that officiating is an issue it does not make them less of a fan, we roll with the tide as much as any other fan, but notice and remember things like 6 men on the ice negating a wings power play, then during the time the Wings would have been on the pp, the pens get one... that is a big what if left on that game, also if you dvr'd it look at that game and 1 of the goals was also scored on an offside play, does that mean the wings would have won? No, but it certainly means that might have and it's the what if's that leave some dis-satisfied with the game / series.

Anyone who denies the officiating is not affecting these games is blind and the outcome does have alot to do with officiating. I am not going to go as far as to say they are trying to slant to one team or another, but I will go as far as to say they are tilting the playing field in favor of maximum drama, many fans of both teams in this series are complaining, if you have watched enough of the playoff games you can predict when whistles will be swallowed and when a penalty will be called this is B.S. and hurts the game no matter what team you root for. In the end will the better team win? Because of the officiating it is unfortunate, but that answer will depend on what team you were rooting for.

I am hoping it will be the SCF where the league finally realize that it needs to tighten up on officiating. When you have at least 2 games decided by officials and you have the TV Personalities talking about it during and after every game, it is a black eye on the NHL, how is a new casual fan supposed to vest in a team with shoddy officiating like we have seen in this series? Like the one commentator on NBC said last night, you at the very least let the teams know what the rules for the game will be (he referenced they should have given Babbs a heads up)... I mean how insane is that? A TV Commentatot basically saying the rules are changing game to game.... I am also hoping the series is remembered as the one where #5 got #5. Gooooooooooooooo Wings!