Jesusberg

Also found it interesting that Franzen, Richards and Tatar are on Delvecchio, and Abdelkader, Nyquist and Zetterberg are on Lindsay. Early indications were that Z would be on Richards' wing to start. Maybe not? Just speculation on my part, obviously. Sheahan-Glendening-Helm are on the same team, as are Miller-Andersson-Ferraro. Could be a glimpse a some line combinations.

There's always the option of signing him to an AHL or ECHL deal, too. It's possible Detroit doesn't want to commit that last contract to someone this year. They can still get a good look at him with the other deals, too.

The team's at 49 contracts right now - no room on the Wings for a vet signing. If anything, it's possible that they sign one of the FA invites from the Traverse City tournament. According to Malik, Stanton's looked solid and is probably the closest to being offered a deal (though, still not that likely). Verrier is a possibility, too.

I reeeally hope they use that line in Grand Rapids. That was the line I was hoping to see when I posted in the 2015-16 GRG thread. Just so much firepower - I think they'd really excel. The top-nine group I was looking for: Athanasiou-Larkin-Mantha Tangradi-Miele-Bertuzzi Tvrdon-Nosek-Zengerle I think Cleary takes one of those spots now. Perhaps he knocks Tangradi down a line? I dunno. Zengerle played well last year, so it's hard to see him getting knocked down to the fourth, or sent to Toledo. At the same time, don't want to see Tvrdon go that route again. Either way, I'd love to see that top line used.

Seriously, though. During the summer, my desktop background is a gallery of random video game wallpapers. October through April is the only time my girlfriend doesn't think I'm a man-child.

For some reason, I always feel like the higher numbers look ridiculous on players. Usually see them in prospect tournaments or the preseason. I'm sure he'll pick something different once he's got a permanent spot on the team. Also, was just checking the Wings' website and they've got Tangradi, Turgeon, Russo and Saarijarvi as part of the roster. Anyone know the reason for it? They've got Russo wearing #51, too (Somewhere, Valtteri weeps).

Well with Ericsson having 52, Green went to 25. I guess 71 kind of looks like 21? Only thing I can think of, to be honest.

And I considered this - the whole cautionary tale angle. I'm against the signing, but if it somehow lights a fire under Mantha, I'll be happy that a positive came out of it.

I definitely think it's more of an "if" then a "when". Roose could be referring to the preseason, or maybe he's optimistic about Larkin's chances. I doubt he's tipping his hand with, though (don't think he'd know about that kind of decision just yet). However, I do find it interesting that Larkin's practicing with Detroit. As far as I know, there aren't any other GR-bound players with them right now. I know Marchenko was at a previous skate about a week ago, but I'm not sure about this one? Anyone, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Edit: In terms of the number, he usually wears 19. He's worn 21 with USA. Obviously, neither is available in Detroit. Or maybe he just wants some of 2013-14's version of Dan Cleary to rub off on him (I swear, I'm not being cheeky, but I couldn't help it. The opportunity presented itself).

Maybe because Jeff Hoggan is signed to an AHL deal, earned his one-year deal last season and is the captain of the Griffins? I'm not the biggest fan of signing players based (mostly) on their leadership skills, but I understand that those guys have their place. It gets a little out of hand when it seems like overkill, and there's a big logjam within the organization. For example, I'm glad that Evans went to Texas with XO, Marchenko, Jensen, Sproul, Russo, Lashoff and Paetsch taking up spots in GR. At this point, I think there's plenty of veteran leadership in the organization - in Detroit and in Grand Rapids. It's not necessarily one thing or the other with Cleary - it's a combination of things. It's certainly not that I'm worried about the impact of his contract on the cap or the Wings' roster. It's more that he's taking up another contract, which was handed to him. The reason (seemingly) he's been given his last three contracts is because he's chummy with Ken Holland. Maybe he can play at the AHL level and provide leadership, but so can Hoggan, Grant, Miele and Tangradi (I'm stretching a bit here). I just think the organization is set up well without Cleary, and that he didn't earn the contract. I will concede, however, that if Grand Rapids didn't have both Grant and Hoggan, I'd probably be less annoyed (not that it matters, I'm just throwing it out there).

I doubt many of the people against the signing think Cleary's going to ****** someone's roster spot in Detroit. It's more along the lines of it being asinine to sign a consultant/advisor to a player contract. My beef is more with Holland than Cleary in this situation.

OK, well... highly improbable*. Just out of curiosity, what do you see Kopitar, Sheahan and Pulkkinen making in this scenario? What about DeKeyser and Mrazek's raises? Even here, Detroit's going to be tight on cap space, IMO.

No doubt, which is near impossible, since they've got seven forwards (including Mule) signed for next season. Of the UFA's you mentioned, I could see Abdelkader, Helm and Miller returning. You throw in the RFA forwards (Sheahan, Pulks and Ferraro) and that gives you (potentially) 13 forwards. If they let Helm go, it's probably because Larkin is good enough to jump into the lineup. I don't see Larkin taking Miller's spot - I'm guessing they'll want him in the top-nine. If it were the year Datsyuk's deal ended, I'd bet on Detroit as one of the front-runners for Kopitar.

- So, ignore the context of the signing and pretend it's a pure, AHL-related signing. That Dan Cleary's history with Ken Holland or his "handshake deal" with Kenny had nothing to do with it. Check. - It's a bad signing by some means, but we'd just run in circles here. - I agree. Probably for the best, before they stick us in a forum of our own to argue.

Honestly, I think that between the raises the RFA's receive, plus the cap hit for the returning UFA's, there won't be much room. Of course, that depends on how much of a raise you think certain guys will gets, but even at some conservative estimates, I doubt Detroit has the cap space. Dropping Howard's 5.2M would help, for sure, but I think the number Kopitar would be looking for would be too much.

One of my favorite non-Wings in the league. I'd absolutely love to have him here, but considering how much he'll command... Los Angeles absolutely has to get this done. With all of the off-ice issues recently, they need a positive. Little to no depth down the middle for the Kings, either.

Bingo. And it's one of the things that irks me the most - why Cleary but not those guys? I'm not board with the reasoning for not signing him too, obviously. Exactly, so if Dan's the only one who thinks he can play at the NHL level, then why does Holland keep signing him? Dan Cleary's not willing to admit defeat, and Ken Holland has a soft spot for him. KH is honoring some informal (illegal, too) agreement made a few years back. He was gifted 1M last season for showing up for ten games. He was gifted a contract this year because he's Dan Cleary. I don't think that's right. I'm discussing the past two years because they're part of why he's still here. Had he and Ken not agreed to "make it right" after he decided to opt out of the Philly situation, he wouldn't be here this season. Nothing Dan Cleary did last season was worthy of being given a contract from this team. I mention the past because it offers context in regards to why I'm annoyed by the situation. If Cleary was a guy like Kevin Porter from last season, brought it strictly to play in the AHL to provide leadership and some secondary scoring, then cool. Porter put up some points with Rochester in the previous year, and showed that he could play at that level. I wasn't excited about Porter, but vets are necessary in many situations. If you look at Cleary in the past the seasons, he's a guy who can't play the game at a competitive level, anymore. His knees are jello and he doesn't produce. Dan Cleary has a contract this season because of his relationship with the team, so to ignore the previous two years is to ignore why he was signed.

I'm not sure why you're fixating on the quote. I've never once said he was sour - I said salty, not sour. If you want to get stuck on me calling sour instead of what I'm getting at, then by all means... I don't think Dan Cleary should worry about his ice time, because I don't think he deserves any. Not in the NHL, anyway. I don't even understand how a guy who gets progressively worse every year even deserves a deal, let alone ice time. I don't believe that his under-the-table handshake was the right thing to do. Even if you do, the Red Wings have paid Cleary to struggle on the ice, and talk to younger players off the ice for two seasons now. Holland hasn't made up for Cleary leaving money on the table yet? Does Dan Cleary help the team win? Does he have a positive impact on his linemates? If the only thing that Cleary contributes is advice to younger players, then that's what he should do... coach. I get that they're fine to start, but when Datsyuk returns (and if Mule's healthy) they have decisions to make. They already had decisions to make. I don't care about Cleary's cap hit this year - it can be buried. The remaining money from last season is still problematic, though. Even if the team rolls with 14 forwards, and Cleary and Andersson are sent to GR, the team is $149,545 over the cap. The reality is that he was given a contract because KH has a soft spot for him. Every year we hear all that stuff about hockey being a business, the best players will play, etc. and I guess all of it applies to every one except for Dan Cleary.

Obviously no one wants to sit, but like I said... I was responding to the "he never got sour about being a healthy scratch" line. Every player wants to play, and what Clearly threw out was pretty much the stock respond from guys in the NHL. At the same time, not many players are going to say, "Man, this is some bull****. The coach doesn't respect me! I deserve minutes!". Dan Cleary feels as if he can play, clearly... because he keeps coming back despite being unable to be hockey at an effective level. And they are getting tagged by some of his bonus money - $740,000 to be precise. It's carryover overage money for bonuses from last year. They can defer Richards' bonus money to next year, but they're impacted by the carryover overage money this year. At this point I'm just kind of over Dan Cleary. We've heard "the best players will play" and "you need to be able to compete" and yada, yada for years while bringing back a winger in a severe decline. I have an issue with a team saying one thing and doing another. His role this year won't have the same impact as last year or the year before, but it's just another chapter in the same, stale book for me. Why is Dan Cleary a special, little snowflake? Why did Kirk Maltby have to earn a contract, but Dan's been given one out of loyalty for three seasons? Is anyone else going to be given the benefit of being in sharp decline and handed new contracts? Honestly, I considered the whole cautionary tale angle, and his advice, etc. I just don't see why he has to be a player to give that advice. He can offer the same advice as a consultant. I see the point and think that information could have an impact on some of the prospects.

Perhaps we're not on the same page with the Dan Cleary salty-sour spectrum. I'm not saying he's being a whiny little s*** about it, but he clearly doesn't wanna sit on the bench. If he didn't want to play, he'd take an advisor or consultant role with the team. I think you're mixing up hatred with exasperation. I don't hate Dan Cleary, I'm just tired of him hanging around as an ineffective player. Neither of us can say what kind of impact he truly has/had on this team. Maybe he's helped a young player out and improved his work ethic, making that player better for it down the road. Maybe some of his work ethic rubs off on the guys down in GR this season. Maybe he's made a young player vying for a roster spot (Tatar and Nyquist two years ago) gunning for a roster spot feel like the Red Wings are too loyal to their established players. What we can say for sure is that some of his bonus money from last season is biting Detroit in the hind end this year (740K) and the team is at 49 contracts with his signing. Is it the end of the world? No, but it's not necessary, either. What's the benefit of having Dan Cleary on this team as a player instead of a coach? Again, if Cleary is going to be limited to 20-30 games with GR or 5-10 with DET, then what's the point of returning as a player? Hang 'em up and take a role similar to the one Chelios has now. And for the record, I'm not looking for anything to complain about. I didn't want him signed two years ago, I still don't want him signed. The bottom line for me is that Dan Cleary can do every thing he will with DET/GR as a consultant instead of a player. He just doesn't seem to want to let go.

Those usually fill up fairly quickly, no? Anyway, same boat as kliq - depending on the rules, stats, etc. I would be interested. I'm a fan of using more stats and building deeper teams, but that style's not for every one.

Never? http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2015/01/27/wings-daniel-cleary-frustrated-limited-role/22407615/ Maybe not sour, but he sounds a little salty to me there.

Leadership is great and all, but they've already got Hoggan, Grant and Paetsch. Miele, Lashoff and Tangradi are all experienced players in their mid-to-late 20's. I'm not sure what Cleary does in GR, outside of making things more difficult for guys like Tvrdon and Nastasiuk.

OK, where's the "Deal With It" Cleary .gif? I know one of you has it...

Nobody wins in a race to announce Dan Cleary's return.