Jesusberg

Between Danny and the Wings being apart on the contract, and Ericsson saying his finger isn't 100%... can you imagine that defensive core to start the year if both situations go south? Yuck. Please sign, DD.

This. Not to mention, I thought Sheahan and Tatar had some real chemistry. Sheahan's ability to find Tatar around the net impressed me quite a few times last season - lot of back and forth, and cross-crease stuff between them.

Sheahan has been played at center, exclusively, for the entirety of his career. I really can't recall a time when he wasn't slated at C, so I'm not sure where that came from. That being said, I wouldn't mind trying him in Helm's spot. He really is good around the net - he worked as the net-front presence on the 2nd PP for a good portion of the season. He reminds me of poor man's JVR at times, with his ability around the net. My biggest worry with Helm is his durability. Coming off so many injury riddled years, is he really the guy we want playing top minutes, grinding it out in the corners and in front of the net? When he came back last season, the guy seemed to magically develop a set of hands, but it seemed like his defensive game fell off a bit. I imagine they'd still play him on the PK, not the PP... but still. I'd almost prefer for him to play on that 3rd line with Tatar and Alfie. I think they'd be able to chip in quite a bit.

Agree that four more teams would be too much, but I've read Las Vegas, Seattle, Quebec City and Toronto over and over. Adding two Western teams would even up the conferences and make the most sense. Regardless, teams can still lose more than one player in that scenario, as well.

How would that be possible, especially with 4 teams drafting? There would have to be more than one player selected from a team. In the 2000 expansion draft with Columbus and Minny, Detroit lost Stacy Roest and Darryl Laplante.

Even with the possible changes with respect to protecting players, I still wondered who I would protect if this were to happen. For the current roster I would probably leave the following unprotected: G: Gustavsson D: Lashoff and Quincey F: Andersson, Cleary, Franzen, Glendening and Miller Franzen might be a bit shocking, but I think we're going to have quite a few wingers coming up who can make up for the production. The only reason I didn't use Weiss instead is because I think he could still prove to be a good stop-gap before seeing what guys like Sheahan and Larkin can do as centers playing in the top 6. I also think the term is a bit easier to deal with. The rest of the guys are pretty self-explanatory. Obviously, by the time (if) this happens, things will be very different. The toughest choice I could see lies in net - we'll likely have Howard and Mrazek. Do you protect both guys?

Does it really matter? I hate to sound jaded here, but when it comes to all things Dan Cleary, I know exactly what to expect from Kenny and co. He's going to get his ten games, because Ken Holland promised him that money. He could be pure garbage water in the pre-season, and he's still going to play his ten games this season. If Dano could be a 20-20 guy again I would be totally content. I don't care who the player is - if he produces for this team, or helps it win in some other fashion, I appreciate his contributions. Even if he did play 50+ games and produce 20+ points, he's not going to be adding anything to the PK, I think, as his speed and mobility have taken a huge hit. The issue is, he's not that guy anymore, and smart money says his knee is too shot for him to make any kind of comeback. I would have preferred either of these two scenarios... I would have liked that extra spot on the team to be up for grabs in camp. Any one of Jurco, Pulkkinen, Mantha or Nosek could push for the spot. Not sure any would be 100% ready, but it would be great to see them battle and find out who would push the most for the spot. On the flip side, I do think we already have a ton of offensive talent up front. Maybe that spot could have gone to Ferraro or Callahan for duty on the PK. Sheahan might see more PK time with Weiss returning, but outside of that, Helm and Miller are the regulars. Glendening and Andersson can play on the PK, but I'm not sure how often they'll be in the line-up. I just think either option would have been better.

Dano is going to get his 10 games to shine, regardless. The real question remains: Will management sit him after he proves ineffective during that stint?

I know I may be I. The minority here, but I'm OK with this. Maybe I just can't stand having an uneven number of teams in each conference, but I feel like it needs to be balanced out. I would definitely prefer Seattle and KC as destinations for new teams, though.

Someone would have offered him a deal. They would be as wrong as Holland was to do it, but they would have. *sigh*

Things I will give Ken Holland full credit for: -Restocking the prospect shelves. Let's face it, the drafting was pretty hit and miss during the early to mid 2000's. Kenny doesn't get full credit here, but he was part of turning around the prospect pool. -Being smart with prospect progression. I know a lot of people hate the whole overripe thing, but Nyquist and Tatar are examples of players who have greatly benefited from gaining experience in the minors. -Signing younger players to solid deals. I think his "bridge deals" are a real positive. Guys like Zetterberg, Filppula and Kronwall all got them, now it's guys like Tatar and most likely Nyquist next year. He seems to be good with the younger player's deals. -Rebuilding on the fly. Most teams need to tank, sell off their assets and completely alter their team. Detroit's managed to keep their superstars, and nearly all of their promising young players while staying competitive. Whatever your definition of competitive is, Detroit hasn't been a basement dweller - that's a plus in my eyes. Things I don't think are Ken Holland's fault: -Missing out on big name free agents. The salary cap has changed the playing field in the NHL, but I also think that the attitudes of players have changed. It's almost as if they want teams to chase them. The whole Suter thing was mind-boggling to me. You're a GM and you get on a plane to go talk to a player? Guys wanting to play in their hometowns, with their best friends, etc. is out of Ken's hands, I think. Does he need to change his approach, perhaps? It's a situation now where players want three things: comfort, comradery and cap hit. The one thing Kenny can control is giving out money, so luring players here is going to be a matter of over payment, I think. Things I want to slap Ken Holland for: -Misguided loyalty to veteran players. The list of players could go on and on, but we know the deal here. -Bringing back familiar talent. I think you can also accuse Kenny of playing it "too safe" here. Bringing back talent to take the places of prospects he feels aren't ready yet. It's kind of a double-edged sword, but at times I think Kenny holds guys back too much. It was great for Gus and Tatar to stay down, but then the team also had that mess at the beginning of the year with Bert, Sammy and Cleary taking up spots. -Poor judgement with trades and contracts. The Quincey and Legwand trades still bother me. Giving out 3 million dollar, NTC contracts to 35+ year-old vets, and a 4.25 million dollar contract to a pylon. All things considered, I don't think there's another guy for the job right now, but that doesn't mean I think Kenny is totally effective in his post. He's done a lot of great things for this team, and recently some not-so-great things. If he could just alter his approach to trading, I think he would be totally set. This team is entering a situation where the star players will be done in a few seasons, and there's quite a bit of talent waiting in the wings to take their place. The question is, which guys are going to become legitimate superstars, and what is Kenny going to do with the excess talent? I think Nyquist, Mantha, Jurco and Tatar all have potential to be star forwards on this team, DeKeyser, Ouellet and Sproul strike me as the future of the blueline, but who knows what will happen when they're not insulated anymore. Kenny's going to have some big decisions to make with the talent on this team, and they're going to determine if this entire "rebuild on the fly" process was really effective or not.

I honestly don't think the guy is a bad general manager - he's proven just the opposite over the years. I just think some aspects of the game have passed him by - namely making moves and having a good relationship with other general managers. That being said, results are results. Regardless of his intentions, Holland hasn't made too many impact moves of late. The ones he's tried to make haven't turned out well. I'm not overly thrilled with the term, but I guess we'll see how it goes. Bonus is if this gets Babs to sign on for some term, otherwise it's kind of "meh" for me.

NOOO! I checked out this topic just to make one of those. Bless your soul

First off, I think this roster is going to be a bit of a mess at the start of the season. All the question marks surrounding Weiss - Will he stay healthy? Who will he find chemistry with? Can he produce like the 2nd line center he's supposed to be? Along with that, we've got Dan Cleary, for at least 10 games, trying to prove he can still play hockey. I'd keep Jurco away from that, for now. Tie goes to the veteran, and even when it's not a tie... well... I think about the way Tatar was mishandled at the beginning of last season and I cringe. I see your point about the carry over bonuses, but the team's got about 15 million in space, and that's not taking into account the cap going up by whatever it will go up by. Only Nyquist, Jurco and Smith to retain - I'm not sure what they'll do with Andersson, but if they keep him, he'll be cheap. Add in whatever bonuses carry over and their new cap hits, and I still think we've got plenty of room. If there are reasons to not bring in Alfie, I don't think carry over bonuses are up there, considering the team is in a pretty good situation. As for the best 12 forwards playing, I agree to an extent. If by "best" you mean the most skilled, I think there's still a need for role players. Jurco would have to be on the 3rd line or above for me to want him on this team. I think that if he can play in an insulated situation in the top 9, he could be up... otherwise, he's better off in GR. Nyquist taking until November to be on the team was a pain... a huge pain. I also think it was a far different situation. You had Bertuzzi, Samuelsson and Cleary expected to play skilled roles when the skill just wasn't there anymore. Here's Gus in the AHL, who can clearly outplay any of those guys in that role, and he's languishing. I'm not sure that's the same situation here. As I've said before, while Jurco showed flashes of brilliance, he also fell off a bit. I think there's still something to be learned in the AHL for Tomas. Alfie's good for "top 6 forward" points - he's not a Samuelsson or Bertuzzi. Apples and oranges, IMO. Alfie's fatigue, if I'm remembering correctly, can be attributed in part to being overplayed during the Olympics. I remember a few people around here ranting about it. Believe me, I'm not confused here - 40+ year-olds aren't going to hold up as well over an 82 game season, but I think last year was a unique situation that contributed to his drop off. Nyquist dropped off, too. It happens to a lot of guys. It's not just an age thing. At the end of the day, I think having a guy who can produce at a .72 PPG clip, even if it's only for 60 or so games, is worth hanging onto. I'm sure it sounds like a cop-out, but I really have concern over how they'd handle Jurco in this situation. I think that if he is on the team, I'd want it to be in an insulated situation. 3rd line minutes on a line with Sheahan-Alfredsson would be fantastic, I think. The issue there is pushing Abdelkader out of the top 9, and into the 4th line with Miller-Helm. It would also mean one of Franzen, Nyquist or Tatar next to Z-Pavs, and I think we know which way Babcock would go on that one. You lost me there. Taking a beaten up, ineffective veteran over one who can still produce for the sake of nostalgia. You stop it right now, Kenny.

I can't speak for krsmith, but I'm certainly not under the impression that Alfredsson is going to lead the Red Wings to a cup, or a 100+ point season. Perhaps the team as a whole, with far less injuries, has a shot at doing better than they did last season. I don't think that's out of the realm of expectation. I don't think Alfredsson is a game breaker, nor is he someone who will be deemed "responsible" for a playoff exit. He's a very reliable player with good pedigree, who gave this team some new looks on the power play. Quite frankly, after you consider his offensive contributions last season, the points per game drop off a fair bit for the players beneath him. I'd say the Red Wings could use those points, especially considering the question marks surrounding Weiss. You need points from somewhere, and Alfredsson is capable of producing them. I don't think many people who are in favor of him coming back give more responsibility to or weight on Alfredsson than that.

I'm not going to go back and forth about whether or not this team will face a significant number of injuries or not - I don't think any of us can predict that. I think it'd be pretty insane to see the number of injuries we did last year. I will say that this is the youngest the team has looked in years. The superstars are getting long in the tooth, but this team is also going to be able to lean on younger bodies more than ever. Does that stop a freak accident from happening to Z, Pav, etc? No. I think it minimizes the wear and tear, though. I loved the way the Kid Line played during portions of last season, but I also think that playing Alfredsson on the wing of that 3rd line will benefit Tatar and Sheahan as well. Surrounding the kids with veterans who play the game the "right" way is going to turn them into leaders, and superstars. Can anyone against signing Alfredsson say they would feel the same way if Cleary had not been signed? It's easy to say, "well stop the damage now, we've already got enough veterans". I don't think that has anything to do with Alfredsson being an effective player, because he was. Reality is, playing are going to get hurt, and Jurco, Pulkkinen, etc. are going to be called up throughout the season. I don't care how old the guy is - I don't see a single reason why you wouldn't bring back your highest scoring forward from the previous season. The bottom line for me: Alfredsson was an effective player last season. You re-sign effective players.

Bingo. I think some people forget that Jurco is only 21. The kid showed flashes of brilliance, but also looked lost in the shuffle at times. It's not a fair comparison, but when you look at Gus or Tatar then look at Jurco, they're well ahead of him right now. They weren't ready at that stage in their careers, and I truly believe going back down to GR helped both of those guys tremendously (though, I am among the group that thought they should have started as regulars last season). This team will face injuries, and there's a very real chance that Jurco will find himself in the line-up throughout the season. It's easy to compare this situation to last season's, when Nyquist was more than ready, but I don't believe Jurco is now where Nyquist was last season. Starting the season in the AHL is not going to hinder his overall development, IMO. If anything, I think it's going to put a chip on his shoulder and make him want it even more. Tatar had several issues starting the season - and even getting call-ups before last season. Many (including myself) thought he was in Babcock's dog house, and being treated unfairly. Signing his 3-year deal just showed that the kids can play, and when they prove it, they will be rewarded.

I get he's PK and all, but 9 million? Holy cow. For a guy who doesn't play on the penalty kill... I guess there really is some danger in using bridge deals. Sheesh.

He signed with them, again. I know it's with Texas, but that compromises my joke. Joke killer. Pssh...

Nill, you sly dog.

The right point on the PP will never be the same again...

If you remove Jurco's salary (assuming Alfie returns) it leaves a little over 6 million for DD and Alfredsson. Looks like they'll be right up against the cap again.

That's Dan Cleary money right there. I'm still totally fine with it.

I'm thinking somewhere around 1.8 to 2.2... Even then, I wouldn't be surprised to see 2.4 or 2.5 per.

"But comes up just short" is right, pal. Ha! Gonna be the worst team everrr. All kidding aside, I can see about half of those coming to fruition. I have strong doubts regarding the Weiss, Helm, Howard and 2nd in the East predictions. I think Dats and Z could score more than that, if healthy. I'm on the fence about the Smith one, because if he does get that PP time I can see 35-40 points, but I'm not sure about the defensive improvements. I still like to see some positive predictions though, good stuff. (But I'll still be one of the people complaining about Dano)