Jesusberg

When I see "untouchable" next to the name of any prospect, I have to roll my eyes. I'm sorry, but just take a look at draft history from even the last 5-10 years. Check the first 5 names or so, and you'll see some serious to moderate (Schenn brothers) success... then it gets spotty. For my money, untouchable is the 20-25 year old player who can eat up 25 minutes on the back-end and look comfortable, or the kid scoring 30 goals at that age, or playing 50 games between the pipes and putting up respectable numbers. Potential is potential. "Being the best thing to happen Detroit since" is a relative statement, because there's much better than Mantha out there. Kid's value is at a high right now - If you can package him for someone with a proven track record in their early to mid 20's... why in the world wouldn't you do it?

Agree with looking at LA's model, and I'd even toss Muzzin's name into that conversation. Very good movement even within the offensive zone during PP time, etc. I think the line of thought around grabbing someone like Boyle for 1-2 years, as opposed to Niskanen for 6-7 is that the kids coming up could very well have just as much upside as Niskanen, without paying the chunk of change he's going to demand. If Niskanen were a proven commodity, then I would think differently, but he's only had two 30 point seasons over six years. Teams are going to throw the bank at him, and I'm just not sure he'll be worth it. Even next season, Mike Green is pretty much the only worthwhile acquisition on defense. I would much rather grab Boyle short term, and let whoever out of Sproul, Ouellet, Backman and Marchenko step up, because I'm willing to be two of those four will be quality, top 4 defenders in 3 seasons. Now if you're thinking trade route, that's a different story. That's also a place where I see Kenny having to move a lot of assets that not every one would be thrilled about moving.

Admittedly, I didn't watch much Columbus hockey this year. I know he had a solid season, but the other guys have just shown more consistency over time. My hesitation is purely based on the rest of the guys having a proven track record.

I totally understand the logic behind moving potential for a proven commodity. If you can land that blue-chip defender, or consistent goal scorer, you do it. Even if the guy is in his mid to late 20's, you're getting consistency for 5-10 years at least. In the NHL, that's a good chunk of time. I love Mantha's potential, but it's just that - potential. There are still doubts surrounding his game, and I think the fan base is a wee bit excited about the prospect of having a home grown, potential 40 goal scorer. As far as him leap-frogging Jurco and every one above Jurco in that top six... I'm not advocating just shipping the guy off for nothing, but if you're getting a stud back... it's just crazy to not make that move. Remove the sentiment and 40 goals is 40 goals. An elite defender is an elite defender. While unlikely to be moved, I'd take any of those guys that DD listed (maybe not Johansen) if Mantha was going the other way. The whole, "let's see what he's got in the AHL" - that just kills his trade value if he struggles. His value is at an all-time high right now, so if they're going to move him, they'd be getting the best value right now.

I can see the points there, as well. His skating is much better than I thought it was - or at least, it improved. If he can settle in around that 40 point area, I'm absolutely happy - if his defensive game improves, even better. Regardless of the situation, I do think you have a PP specialist, 30+ point player in Sproul, I'm just hoping there's more there. I think paired with Ericsson this season will do him a world of good. I also think that down the line, someone stable like DeKeyser or Ouellet could be a really good partner for him. Speedy guys who play a smart, quiet game. He's the kind of guy who needs to be able to take some chances to be most effect (same with Smith, IMO), so I'd hope for a fitting partner. His PP skill will run itself, we'll see what happens 5-on-5. Back to Smith, I actually have hope for him. I think his biggest enemy is himself. You can see how dejected he gets when he makes a mistake, but when he's playing with confidence and taking risks, he's a fun guy to watch. I don't think Quincey can take the blame (not all of it, anyway), but I think a more stable partner will make a world of good. Quincey seemed to do a lot of "one-touch" play, getting rid of the puck ASAP. As has been mentioned, possession is key and if you've got both guys playing hot potato... I can see him being moved if one of the kids blows up, and I really think it could come down to DeKeyser vs. Smith, and you take DeKeyser in that situation. Barring any unforeseen circumstances, Kronwall and Ericsson are here for another five years, DK's probably going to be a fixture. You've got the big four defensive prospects knocking on the door, so Smith is going to have to earn his keep, for sure. Franson seemed to be put into situations where he was asked to do too much. He went from being used as purely an offensive defender to having to work on the PK, and being paired with guys like Gardiner and Rielly. I'm not 100% sure on who he was put with last season, but it just seemed as if he was allowed to play more in his comfort zone. I think the transition could have been handled more smoothly, obviously. My comparison between Sproul and Franson wasn't so much as a slight to Franson, as much as it was me being worried about a similar situation. His "rounding into a two-way" defender hasn't been handled well, obviously.

I don't think I've ever heard a player referred to as being for spackle. I like that. I'm going to use that one in the future.

I truly feel as if Smith could jump to the 30-35 range next year, given some actual PP time. One of his biggest issues at the beginning of the year and prior was getting the puck out of the zone - boneheaded passes up the middle. He seemed to get away from that near the end, and especially when paired with Kronwall. More poise in the defensive zone and some time on the PP and I think this team has got another point producer. I think it's been pretty obvious in recent posts that I'm pro-Boyle, and I agree completely above the elite defenders. Doughty and Keith are there, McDonagh has turned into that guy. I don't think PK is that two-way monster, but Markov makes up for it. Regardless, those are the guys who dictate possession. I also agree with the sentiment behind having Boyle mentor the other offensive defenders. I think Smith, Sproul, etc could learn from watching his poise, ability to hold the puck at the blueline and his puck movement. I'm not sure about the "Sproul being a #1 in this league" comment. I am a huge, huge Sproul fan, but I think his defensive game is definitely lacking. He's really at a crossroads right now where he needs to fill out and shore up his defensive game, or he could run the risk of developing a Cody Franson type game. That's the downside with him - an offensively driven big man who is prone to defensive lapses - a PP specialist. Right now I see Sproul as having a 2nd pairing guy kind of upside, but that could change, obviously. I for one really hope he rounds out into a two-way guy.

I could see Miller being a good fit for Washington or Minnesota (depending on Harding's health). There are a few other teams that could really use a boost in net, but I don't see Miller wanting to go to many of them (Calgary, NYI, Winnipeg in a 1A, 1B situation with Pavelec). Really, those first two teams make the most sense to me.

This is pretty much my exact line of thinking. Kronwall and Ericsson are here for a while longer (5 and 6 years, respectively) and I don't see the team moving DeKeyser anytime soon, Smith if he continues to get better. You throw in Niskanen and you're essentially saying you're going to move one of those four regulars, and I would assume that Kronwall, E and DeKeyser are all looked upon more favorably by management (and most of us). I'm ok with moving Smith in a package deal for a legitimate right-handed, top 4 guy... but I don't think moving him in some other manner to make room for Niskanen and the kids makes sense. The big four defensive prospects are knocking on the door, and it's going to be tough to make room for them as is... adding Niskanen for the term he's going to get would only complicate that further.

Fair enough. Perhaps I misread it, but I just say it as, "contend or s*** the bed with the prospects in the line-up". Again, I'm not saying it's Boyle or Sproul, I'm saying it's Boyle AND Sproul. I'm looking at vet-prospect/young player combinations. Kronwall-Smith, DeKeyser-Boyle, Ericsson-Sproul. One of Kindl or Lashoff can be moved or waived. Neither factors in on the future of this team's blueline. I think there's a big difference between regular season experience, and playoff experience. This year kind of showed that - those kids helped this team into the post-season and then looked like deer in the headlights when they got there. I think the younger guys need that post-season experience, and I think this team has the potential to be better than last season's team. I don't think we have to live or die with the kids in the line-up, because I think that's how you deflate some of them. I think that's where they can look to a guy who has experience to calm them down, and follow his example. I guess this is where we differ in our opinion on what Boyle would bring. I think he helps this team get into the post-season/boosts the PP, I think he helps guys like Smith, Sproul and Marchenko learn the ropes on the PP a bit better, and I think he helps DeKeyser develop into a more stable defender who, in two season when the kids are really ready, will be able to manage his OWN pairing with a younger player. I don't think the guy is the missing piece, but I do think he could have a positive impact on this team's future blueliners, and ease their transition into becoming responsible, reliable defenders in their own right.

Detroit basically rolled over against Boston. I personally believe part of it was because they didn't move the puck well enough to utilize their speed up front. I think the kids can get experience, and will learn from the experience of someone like Boyle. I don't think Smith or DK are far enough along that they can manage their own pairing, and if you're throwing in two of Sproul, Marchenko, Ouellet, etc. that's what you're getting. I actually think that defense does look good, aside from needing a bigger body or two. I agree that Boyle's long in the tooth, but his 36 points would have been good for 2nd in scoring on this team's defense. I disagree that Dan Boyle was never good to begin with - he was one of the better puck moving, offensive defenders in this league for several years. He was top 10 in defensive scoring year after year. Is he that guy anymore - absolutely not, but I believe that his 30-35 points, and experience can help this team. I don't believe in the "contend or tank" mentality, because if this team showed one thing in their series with Boston it's that they need experience - playoff experience. It's not like the prospect cupboard is bare - the team needs to add some depth at center and perhaps a winger or two, but I'd say they're pretty solid on defense, in goal. Personally, as long as the kids are getting experience, I could care less if this team has a few early round exits. You build from those experiences, and as you've said, Dats and Z aren't going to be around forever. Playoff experience allows you to shape your Nyquist, Sheahan, Jurco and Tatar - tanking does not.

Considering some of the rumored prices for defenders that have been rejected by other teams (Nyquist + Tatar for Bouwmeester, Nyquist + Smith + 1st for Edler), I'm just not sure what they'd have to offer for a legitimate guy. Personally, I don't want them to move Nyquist, Tatar or Jurco up front, but what other attractive assets does the team have? I'd love if Kenny could land a legitimate top 4 defender, I'm just not sure how feasible it is. Adding Boyle and working some of the younger guys into the system seems feasible to me.

I'm sure I sound like a broken record, but this is my ideal defense corps for next season. Great balance there - saves the headache of seeing a forward play the right point on the PP (though, I think given the depth at forward, we'll still see one on the 2nd unit, left side) and gives the guys roles. Kronwall, Boyle and Sproul would be PP for certain, maybe some looks for Smith. PK would be Kronwall, Ericsson, DeKeyser and Smith.

Maybe I've lost my mind, but this doesn't come across as a patch-up move to me, so much as a "bridging-the-gap" move. I mean, obviously management has a much better idea than anyone who posts here does about the future talents of this team, but at this stage I have NO idea who they should keep going forward. I seriously think the team needs to take looks at Backman, Ouellet, Sproul and Marchenko in a relatively "safe" environment this season. To me, that means insulated minutes on that third pairing. They've pushed the RH shot thing to death in the post-season interviews, so to me that says Sproul and Marchenko are going to get a chance to become NHL regulars next season. My concern about making a big move is that this team may not know what they're giving up yet. Unless they're trading for a legitimate RH, big minute guy, I wouldn't even bother. And in that case, how many of those teams are willing to move a guy that fits the bill? I would be thrilled if we could somehow scoop up a Bogosian, Carlson or even Hamonic/Myers. The rest of the guys above them (Weber, PK, Karlsson, Pietrangelo, etc) I'd say are out of the realm of possibility. Right now, for this coming season and perhaps the next season, I'd rather insulate a youth movement by bringing in an older guy to pair with DeKeyser. With the glut of young guys, something has to give. I really think Holland goes one of two ways - surround the young guys with veterans and weed them into the line-up, or move 2-3 of them for a sure-fire top 4 guy. I just don't see him making the big move. Who's in the position to move one of those guys, though? I would say Winnipeg, with the emergence of Trouba. Perhaps the Isles (Hamonic) or Buffalo (Myers). I think it has to be a perfect situation, and no one's in the business of helping another team in this league. Holland's mentioned several times, right-handed defensemen are at a premium in this league. Which team wants to move one in his prime, and what's the price? Generally, they'd be asking for a return of forwards if they're well stocked on defense, not multiple, younger defenders. And if that's the case, it's usually for a veteran with a rebuild in mind.

Perhaps I should have specified, but I'm almost certain that this team is going to waive Lashoff and/or move Kindl. Lashoff is nothing special, and Kindl has basically shown his hand, and it's not pretty. He doesn't work here. My ideal defense next season runs something like, Kronwall-Smith, DeKeyser-Boyle, Ericsson-Sproul/Marchenko. Would I like Niskanen instead of Boyle? For sure, but I also think he's going to be asking for a lot more money and term. At this point I think Boyle serves to shape the younger kids into top 4 guys. I'm not being smart here, but what are you guys' ideal scenario for the defense over the next two seasons? I'm actually curious.

Oh for sure, because at 21:16 a game he would have really gotten lost in the shuffle with the other guys in Detroit's top 4 - DeKeyser (21:38), Ericsson (21:14) and Quincey (20:48). Fact is, the guy would be an asset. At 1-2 seasons, he's at worst a PP specialist and has experience to pass on to the younger kids. This isn't using Bert, Cleary and Samuelsson, taking up the spots of Nyquist, Tatar and Jurco because Kenny doesn't think they're ready. It's utilizing a veteran player who is going to help the PP in the short-term and possibly pass on some knowledge to a Sproul or Marchenko for the long-term. It's not like this team is hard up for cap space, and throwing both Sproul and Marchenko into the top 4 mix right now would be a mistake, in my opinion. This is a situation where bridging that gap between the vets and the kids is necessary.

I have to disagree. I think the secret ingredient in San Jose has been Jumbo Joe's "leadership". I think Boyle has proven to be up to the task over the past number of years in the post-season - 3 out of the past 4 he's been nearly a PPG guy from the back-end. I think it's worth the risk. Moreover, comparing White and Boyle is kind of absurd. White has nowhere near the pedigree that Boyle does. Prior to coming to Detroit, White had never put up more than 30 points at the NHL level - Boyle did that this season in what was considered an off year for him. I have my reservations with the move - his age, pairing him with DeKeyser = soft pairing, pairing him with E = slower pairing, but I think he'll do a lot more good than harm. I don't think Boyle would just be used as a "patch" to get into the playoffs here, but as someone who can help guys like Sproul and Marchenko transition to the NHL level. Say what you will about the guy at his current level of play, but he's played a long time on the PP, and I'm sure he could be of some help to the kids.

I wouldn't be opposed to grabbing Elliott, Emery or Johnson. I think the issue with those guys (outside of re-signing with their team, or another) is that Detroit clearly has a limited window for a back-up goalie next season. It's basically going to be one season, then Mrazek will be up and battling with Howie. I'm still of the mindset that I'd like to see Mrazek play the year in GR and get in a full season. I think that leaves the Wings with two candidates for the back-up position - an older guy on his way out, or a younger-ish guy with something to prove. While they may not be popular options, I could see the Wings rolling the dice on someone like Nabokov or MacDonald. Alternatively, I wouldn't mind seeing someone like Greiss, Montoya or Peters for a season - all guys want to show they're capable NHL goalies. My similarly related, but possibly insane suggestion is to give Thomas McCollum a one-year deal to prove he can play at the NHL level before he parts ways with Detroit. He had a pretty solid year in GR, and I think it'd be a nice to see him play a year behind Howard. I actually think he'd prove up to the task, despite his previous outings in Detroit.

I'm not even going to touch Krug @ 7 million per... As far as Boyle being done in San Jose, I would definitely give him a shot on a short-term deal. 1-2 year(s) maximum, paired with DeKeyser, preferably. Should help Danny round out his game, and will be an asset on the PP. In the meantime, management can figure out what they have in Sproul and/or Marchenko and decide whether or not they'll have to grab a more reliable RH defender. Seems like a Holland plan, and actually makes sense in the short term, IMO.

I guess more accurately, he's just trying to make sure he's not undervalued.

This. There's some posturing on both sides - Babcock is fighting for money/personal preferences, and Holland doesn't want to make Babs bigger than the team, IMO. Obviously they have a good relationship, but business is business. Babcock says he can get a job anywhere, Holland says "well we've got a pretty good future coach in the AHL if need be." There was also a radio interview done by Babcock where he basically said that he loves it here, has no reason to leave, he's excited about the kids, etc. If anything, he sound more excited than usual (when he was mentioning getting stale, the whole Charlie Brown tuning out thing). Not sure if anyone else has heard it, but it runs against a lot of the stuff in Regner's article.

I love his speed and the way he shoots the puck, but I don't see the Kings letting him go. As others have said, he seems to be pretty comfortable on Kopitar's wing. With the cap going up and guys like Mitchell and Greene coming off the books (or signing for a fair amount less there), LA will have every opportunity to keep Gabs. They could even move Williams to shore up some cap space and let Toffoli jump into their top 6 if it came down to it.

I appreciate Mantha's skill level, but I think the idea of him playing on the team right now is rushing it a bit. Unlike last season (where they expected veterans to "bridge the gap"), this year is going to be used to gauge where the young wingers (Nyquist, Tatar & Jurco) are at, and if they fit into the future plans of the team. As high on Mantha as Babcock is, he's also been really high on Jurco from some of the stuff I've read lately. My best guess at what the forwards look like going into the season: Z-Dats-Abs (Hate it or love it, Babcock uses it) Mule-Weiss-Nyquist (Assuming Weiss is healthy) Tatar-Sheahan-Jurco Miller-Helm-Glendening Andersson, Callahan/Ferraro This is assuming Weiss is healthy, and Alfie doesn't return. If both guys are in Detroit, I could see Jurco starting the year in Grand Rapids (as there would be no room in the top 9). Otherwise, I see that as his spot to lose. I would honestly be amazed if Mantha cracked that top 9 - not because he isn't talented, but because I think it's a solid group of guys with some balance and he's going to benefit playing some AHL hockey.

As much as the guy frustrates me, I don't see how you just replace his points - especially with the lack of offense being generated from the D. He's not a 1st line guy, but he's a solid top 6 forward. It just pains people to watch him float and cool off for the long stretches that he does. Buying out Tootoo is the right move, and it allows him to find a job elsewhere.

The back-end really needs to generate more offense. After Kronwall, there's just such a big drop off in point totals. While I'm all for the youth movement, I want to see DeKeyser paired with a right-handed veteran who can put up some points - or Derek Morris as a fallback option. I really think you'd see some higher point totals with something along the lines of Kronwall-Smith, DeKeyser-Niskanen/Boyle and Ericsson-Sproul/Marchenko. I just think it's too much to throw two younger guys in at once. There needs to be some stability for Smith and DK for them to develop a little more, IMO.